A Frivolous Thread: Football (v. 2.0)

Started by Daniel L. Gard, August 11, 2015, 04:17:08 PM

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Jeremy_Loesch

Quote from: Richard Johnson on February 13, 2024, 06:47:49 AM
Quote from: James S. Rustad on February 12, 2024, 07:38:48 PM
Quote from: J. Thomas Shelley on February 12, 2024, 11:53:01 AM
Quote from: Jeremy_Loesch on February 12, 2024, 11:13:26 AMSomeday she won't be.  Someone else will take her place.  But right now she is the greatest wonder on earth. 

Jeremy
Who still speaks of Jenny Lind?

Ashes and dust.

Who even knows who Jenny Lind (the Swedish Songbird [more commonly the Swedish Nightingale]) was?  I did, but I doubt many do.

Now that I knew.

I'm pretty certain that Jennifer (Jenny) Lind is one of the hosts on WHYY (NPR) in Philadelphia.  ;)

Jeremy 

Dave Benke

The financial news today includes the gargantuan ratings for the Super Bowl plus, on the horizon, the emerging option that "outside" investors may be allowed to own NFL Teams (equity funds, the royal investment fund of Saudi Arabia, etc.), which will drive the profits and value of the teams completely over the roof. 

The Saudi fund has led the incredible greed-grab-bag called professional golf down a garden path that resembles mini-golf on the LIV tour. 

Watching the ads, what struck me was with all the cultural celebrity insertions into the promotions, they were invariably introducing one another to us, the audience, who might not know who that celebrity was or is.  Whatever the product was, at least we got to know who the celebrity was, which is the brand attached to the brand.

Panem et circenses, anyone? 

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Dave Benke on February 11, 2024, 08:25:28 PMThe HeGetsUs group had several different ads, pretty powerful. 


Excellent piece by David French today about the HeGetsUs ads.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

George Rahn

#498
Quote from: Richard Johnson on February 15, 2024, 02:01:44 PM
Quote from: Dave Benke on February 11, 2024, 08:25:28 PMThe HeGetsUs group had several different ads, pretty powerful. 


Excellent piece by David French today about the HeGetsUs ads.



This jumped out at me from the French article:  "When I left my fundamentalist church and joined an evangelical fellowship in law school, I learned a different approach. This model says that there is a difference between declaring your faith and demonstrating your faith, and that declarations without demonstrations are worthless."


I think it's more important to declare accurately what the Church teaches and confesses (assuming that this also is the basis for my own faith) and declare those as witness  rather than making the declaration about my faith so as to make a demonstration of it so that it could be assessed as consistent in its biblical value.  I guess by understanding that mission may be less about me and my faith (although at some level I suppose personal confession would  perhaps be as effective a witness).  Then, demonstrations would be less important than pointing outward to what the Church demonstrates in the world. 

IOW, it really isn't about me or you but about the Body of Christ, that is, the Church in the world.

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: George Rahn on February 15, 2024, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: Richard Johnson on February 15, 2024, 02:01:44 PM
Quote from: Dave Benke on February 11, 2024, 08:25:28 PMThe HeGetsUs group had several different ads, pretty powerful. 


Excellent piece by David French today about the HeGetsUs ads.



This jumped out at me from the French article:  "When I left my fundamentalist church and joined an evangelical fellowship in law school, I learned a different approach. This model says that there is a difference between declaring your faith and demonstrating your faith, and that declarations without demonstrations are worthless."


I think it's more important to declare accurately what the Church teaches and confesses (assuming that this also is the basis for my own faith) and declare those as witness  rather than making the declaration about my faith so as to make a demonstration of it so that it could be assessed as consistent in its biblical value.  I guess by understanding that mission may be less about me and my faith (although at some level I suppose personal confession would  perhaps be as effective a witness).  Then, demonstrations would be less important than pointing outward to what the Church demonstrates in the world. 

IOW, it really isn't about me or you but about the Body of Christ, that is, the Church in the world.
Something I thought about this morning - even before reading this - is that what is heard is often different than what is said. Yes, it is important to declare accurately what the Church teaches and confesses. However, what we should be more concerned about is what people actually hear. "Faith comes from hearing." Is the message that we are sending with our words the same message that they are receiving?

This was a topic I wrote about long-ago in seminary. A book on non-verbal communications (that is somewhere on a bookshelf in Arizona while I'm in Washington,) used a study to conclude that about 60% of what is heard in a two-way conversation is non-verbal. How we say what we say speaks loudly. What the person knows or believes about us colors what they hear, e.g., is she trustworthy? does he speak ironically? etc. There is truth in the adage: "Actions speak louder than words." 

In regards to church: the general opinion I've heard from non-church people is that it is a place of judgment. Or, as happened recently, a place where they might get free money, food, etc. (In one community, the churches worked together for traveler's assistance - and those who requested vouchers had to go to the police department - where the clergy assigned for that week met them rather than at the congregations. Many never made it to the police station.)
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

George Rahn

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on February 15, 2024, 02:49:54 PM
Quote from: George Rahn on February 15, 2024, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: Richard Johnson on February 15, 2024, 02:01:44 PM
Quote from: Dave Benke on February 11, 2024, 08:25:28 PMThe HeGetsUs group had several different ads, pretty powerful. 


Excellent piece by David French today about the HeGetsUs ads.



This jumped out at me from the French article:  "When I left my fundamentalist church and joined an evangelical fellowship in law school, I learned a different approach. This model says that there is a difference between declaring your faith and demonstrating your faith, and that declarations without demonstrations are worthless."


I think it's more important to declare accurately what the Church teaches and confesses (assuming that this also is the basis for my own faith) and declare those as witness  rather than making the declaration about my faith so as to make a demonstration of it so that it could be assessed as consistent in its biblical value.  I guess by understanding that mission may be less about me and my faith (although at some level I suppose personal confession would  perhaps be as effective a witness).  Then, demonstrations would be less important than pointing outward to what the Church demonstrates in the world. 

IOW, it really isn't about me or you but about the Body of Christ, that is, the Church in the world.
Something I thought about this morning - even before reading this - is that what is heard is often different than what is said. Yes, it is important to declare accurately what the Church teaches and confesses. However, what we should be more concerned about is what people actually hear. "Faith comes from hearing." Is the message that we are sending with our words the same message that they are receiving?

This was a topic I wrote about long-ago in seminary. A book on non-verbal communications (that is somewhere on a bookshelf in Arizona while I'm in Washington,) used a study to conclude that about 60% of what is heard in a two-way conversation is non-verbal. How we say what we say speaks loudly. What the person knows or believes about us colors what they hear, e.g., is she trustworthy? does he speak ironically? etc. There is truth in the adage: "Actions speak louder than words."

In regards to church: the general opinion I've heard from non-church people is that it is a place of judgment. Or, as happened recently, a place where they might get free money, food, etc. (In one community, the churches worked together for traveler's assistance - and those who requested vouchers had to go to the police department - where the clergy assigned for that week met them rather than at the congregations. Many never made it to the police station.)


From my own CPE days:  I don't think we have any control over what people hear.  But I do believe that our responsibility as pastors is to make sure of what we preach and teach adheres to what the Church says in terms of the Gospel message. 

Brian Stoffregen

#501
Quote from: George Rahn on February 15, 2024, 05:37:54 PMFrom my own CPE days:  I don't think we have any control over what people hear.  But I do believe that our responsibility as pastors is to make sure of what we preach and teach adheres to what the Church says in terms of the Gospel message. 
Then you agree that what people hear is not always what we planned for them to hear. 

What about the non-verbal cues, do you agree that what they hear is affected by the non-verbal aspects of our communications?

While we can't control what they hear, but we can often improve how we encode the message we hope that they will receive. Encoding includes more than just the words we say. I've wondered if the same words spoken to children while sitting on a step will be heard differently than those words uttered while standing in a pulpit (or walking around in a chancel).
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

Dave Benke

Here's the extended version of the Dunkin' Superbowl commercial.  I liked this, because it's New York vs. Boston, which is sports-serious, and because the commercial makes fun of stuff from the 90s as being way out of touch, which is still 25 years ahead of many of us on this forum.  Plus the Boston accent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxTRX1NrsUY&t=84s
It's OK to Pray

John Mundinger

Quote from: George Rahn on February 15, 2024, 05:37:54 PMFrom my own CPE days:  I don't think we have any control over what people hear.  But I do believe that our responsibility as pastors is to make sure of what we preach and teach adheres to what the Church says in terms of the Gospel message.

Doesn't that responsibility also include preaching and teaching in ways that make it easy for people to correctly hear what the Church says in terms of the Gospel message?
Lifelong Evangelical Lutheran layman

Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet understand them as he ought.  St. Augustine

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