Lutherans Should Confess the Sin of White Supremacy

Started by John Mundinger, July 08, 2023, 01:23:25 PM

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John Mundinger

Quote from: DCharlton on July 12, 2023, 02:49:11 PM

What several of us have been criticizing is a double mistake: 1) Trying to place ethics and politics under the category of the Kingdom and the Third Article, rather than under Creation and the First Article.  2)  Suggesting that Lutheranism has a privileged political philosophy that only false saints would reject.

I have not advocated that we should build the Kingdom.  I have suggested that we are called to live faithfully.  Living faithfully includes the recognition that we are called to be instruments of God's left hand.

And, what I am criticizing is the fact that you and others have been reading into my posts what you wanted to hear and are, thus, arguing with your own straw man.  And, you are at risk of looking pretty foolish when your straw man is ahead on points.
Lifelong Evangelical Lutheran layman

Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet understand them as he ought.  St. Augustine

David Garner

Quote from: John Mundinger on July 14, 2023, 09:33:46 AM
Quote from: DCharlton on July 12, 2023, 02:49:11 PM

What several of us have been criticizing is a double mistake: 1) Trying to place ethics and politics under the category of the Kingdom and the Third Article, rather than under Creation and the First Article.  2)  Suggesting that Lutheranism has a privileged political philosophy that only false saints would reject.

I have not advocated that we should build the Kingdom.  I have suggested that we are called to live faithfully.  Living faithfully includes the recognition that we are called to be instruments of God's left hand.

And, what I am criticizing is the fact that you and others have been reading into my posts what you wanted to hear and are, thus, arguing with your own straw man.  And, you are at risk of looking pretty foolish when your straw man is ahead on points.

This is simply nonsense.  This is what you said:

Quote from: John Mundinger on July 08, 2023, 01:23:25 PMWhite supremacy corrupts America.  And, if only by our ambivalence, we are complicit.

Quote from: John Mundinger on July 09, 2023, 09:37:37 PM
Quote from: Dan Fienen on July 08, 2023, 03:24:08 PM
Various forms and assumptions of White Supremacy has long been a part of our society and culture. Overcoming that is important. But for Christians, and that includes Lutherans, our primary religious mission is sharing Jesus' mission, His Gospel. Helping the poor is a responsibility that we have from God, but not the most important.

I agree with the last sentence.  But, how do we do that if people are unable to hear the Gospel because they observe that Lutherans are oblivious to a significant obvious failing in our society?  Or, worse, that Lutherans align themselves with the political forces that perpetuate those obvious failings?

Own your words sir.  People here aren't stupid, and gaslighting is false witness.  So stop.  Either admit that you are saying that Lutherans who vote Republican (or refuse to vote Democrat) are "ignoring" the impact of white supremacy, "complicit" in it as you suggest, or retract your words and choose better words.  You aren't being confronted with a strawman.  Either you spoke unclearly or you are lying about what your position is.  Either way, other people aren't abusing you by arguing against the position you stated outright.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

Also, it is uncharitable and unkind to pretend that "Lutherans" (by which you CLEARLY mean those other than yourself and those who agree with your politics) are "oblivious" to the effects of slavery and Jim Crow laws and racism on our society.  You claim the Gospel, but you wield your words like a sword, never aiming that sword at yourself, conveniently.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

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