Justice and the role of government

Started by peter_speckhard, August 23, 2022, 10:25:53 PM

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Dave Benke

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on August 25, 2022, 12:03:55 PM
On the news this morning, it was pointed out that these are government-backed loans. When students default on them, the tax payers end up paying for them anyway. I know that our sons had such loans (which they have paid back,) but they also had other personal loans that were not backed by the government (and whose interest rates were considerably higher).

I heard this as well, with the follow-up that as loans in default prior to the relief go back on the payment plan the budget gets a boost of up to $50 billion.  The other thing was that of the 43 million people affected by this presidential decision, 20 million of them with the $10k relief or $20k if Pell grants were involved, will have no more loan debt.  So presumably the 23 million people will pay off the $50 billion they have outstanding, which amounts to under $2500 per person if my math is correct.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

Dave Benke

#61
Quote from: RDPreus on August 24, 2022, 10:17:13 AM
When I entered the University of Missouri in 1971, tuition was $500 a semester, room and board was $100 a month, and the minimum wage was $2.10 an hour.  A young man could work his way through college without going into debt.  When my children attended college, this was no longer possible.  They had to borrow money and pay it back.  It has taken them years to pay it back, but they have done it.  It would not be fair to cancel the loans of other students.  The problem, in my opinion, is the government guaranteeing loans for which the students wouldn't qualify under ordinary circumstances.  Colleges and universities rely on the government guaranteeing loans.  This raises the cost of tuition.  I think the solution is to get the federal government out of education altogether.

My understanding, RD, is that your family is putting together a college to do just that, get the federal government out of education.  That's the way to do it - put your money where your mouth is.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

DeHall1

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on August 25, 2022, 12:03:55 PM
On the news this morning, it was pointed out that these are government-backed loans. When students default on them, the tax payers end up paying for them anyway. I know that our sons had such loans (which they have paid back,) but they also had other personal loans that were not backed by the government (and whose interest rates were considerably higher).

I think students (and future students) with these loans would be better served if, rather then paying off the debt, the government reduced the interest rates to 0%.
MOO

RogerMartim

Would there be any similarity in student loan debt forgiveness and the massive bailouts of large corporations?

peter_speckhard

Quote from: RogerMartim on August 25, 2022, 08:05:26 PM
Would there be any similarity in student loan debt forgiveness and the massive bailouts of large corporations?
Depends massive bailouts are we talking about? I would say there is a parallel to the home loan crisis that the government caused and then spent taxpayer money to bail out big companies.

Terry W Culler

Quote from: peter_speckhard on August 25, 2022, 09:58:54 PM
Quote from: RogerMartim on August 25, 2022, 08:05:26 PM
Would there be any similarity in student loan debt forgiveness and the massive bailouts of large corporations?
Depends massive bailouts are we talking about? I would say there is a parallel to the home loan crisis that the government caused and then spent taxpayer money to bail out big companies.


Peter is right.  The government pressured lenders into making poor mortgage loans and this led to, let's say, creative lending.  Then the investors took up packaging and trading these loans.  All the while good old American financial idiocy continued to show its' ugly face as folks ran up unsustainable credit card debt buying things they didn't need with money they didn't have.  In 2008 all these features, plus a lot of greed, led to the collapse we saw.  The government bailed out those companies with loans and forced mergers in order to prevent worse things which were sure to come.   
"No particular Church has ... a right to existence, except as it believes itself the most perfect from of Christianity, the form which of right, should and will be universal."
Charles Porterfield Krauth

RogerMartim

And then there are many congress folks who are just absolutely appalled at the one-time student debt forgiveness of $10,000 but that there was nothing untoward in getting their PPP loans forgiven of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. They say nothing of all the others who took advantage of PPP loan forgiveness.

peter_speckhard

Quote from: RogerMartim on August 26, 2022, 10:11:49 AM
And then there are many congress folks who are just absolutely appalled at the one-time student debt forgiveness of $10,000 but that there was nothing untoward in getting their PPP loans forgiven of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. They say nothing of all the others who took advantage of PPP loan forgiveness.
The differences are staggering. For one, the PPP loans were advertised in advance as forgivable if the person followed the procedures. That makes the comparison totally false from the get-go. The terms of PPP loans were not retroactively changed.

Second, the only reason the loans were offered was because the government was forcing businesses to shut down. If the government mandated that people go to college, it would make sense that the government pay for it.

Third, the PPP loans went toward keeping employees on the payroll when there was no work for them to do. Unless there was fraud involved, it wasn't like the business applying for those loans were just pocketing the money as profit. Businesses paid people not to work because the law was mandating that they not work, so the normal revenue stream to pay them was unavailable, so the government gave forgivable loans to fill in.

In short, I hope you're in a state where whatever you're smoking is legal if you think there is any relevant comparison between the Covid PPP loans and the student loan forgiveness plan.

JEdwards


Charles Austin

From The NYT today:
WASHINGTON — When former President Donald J. Trump returned briefly last week to his office at Trump Tower in New York, he was joined by his son Eric Trump and the top executive of a Saudi Arabian real estate company to sign a deal that creates new conflict-of-interest questions for his just-launched presidential campaign.
   The deal is with a Saudi real estate company, which intends to build a Trump-branded hotel, villas and a golf course as part of a $4 billion real estate project in Oman. The agreement continues a practice that had been popular for the Trump family business until Mr. Trump was elected president — selling branding rights to an overseas project in exchange for a generous licensing fee.
   But what makes this project unusual — and is sure to intensify the questions over this newest transaction — is that by teaming up with the Saudi company, Mr. Trump is also becoming part of a project backed by the government of Oman itself.
   The deal leaves Mr. Trump, as a former president hoping to win the White House again, effectively with a foreign government partner that has complex relations with the United States, including its role in trying to end the war in Yemen and other important foreign policy agenda items for Washington.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/20/us/politics/trump-organization-oman-deal.html



ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. Former journalist. Former news director and spokesman for the LCA. Former LWF staff in Geneva, Switzerland.  Parishes in Iowa. New Jersey and New York.  Retired in Minneapolis.

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