Bible Study, Education and More

Started by Richard Johnson, August 07, 2007, 05:06:18 PM

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MMH

For those who are our (to borrow an image re: pastoral footwear from G. Keillor) hushpuppies on the ground, can you let this inquiring mind know what happenms in the Education statement re: homeschooling

The largest change in American education, growing by leaps & bounds, and currently the size of the NYC or LA school system- and we say precious little.

Matt+

Richard Johnson

The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

scott3

Quote from: Richard Johnson on August 07, 2007, 11:07:20 PM
Quote from: Scott._.Yaki mow on August 07, 2007, 09:33:38 PM
??? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ????

8)

OK, offer revoked.

Really?  Aww, shucks.

[[PS -- did it really show up as all question marks for you?  My screen had beautiful Arabic flowing across it.  But I do have Arabic font support installed, so...]]

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Scott._.Yaki mow on August 07, 2007, 11:09:02 PM
[[PS -- did it really show up as all question marks for you?  My screen had beautiful Arabic flowing across it.  But I do have Arabic font support installed, so...]]

Nope. It showed up as Arabic (I guess), but then the quote function turned it into funny faces.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Laroki

Quote from: Matt Hummel on August 07, 2007, 10:52:48 PM
For those who are our (to borrow an image re: pastoral footwear from G. Keillor) hushpuppies on the ground, can you let this inquiring mind know what happenms in the Education statement re: homeschooling

The largest change in American education, growing by leaps & bounds, and currently the size of the NYC or LA school system- and we say precious little.

Matt+

Sort of puzzling, isn't it?  We are probably one of three homeschooling families in the entire ELCA, (just a stab in the dark-I have no stats) and it's pretty lonely!  I just picked up an old book on Luther and education.  Perhaps I will find some gems there.  After having spent a year being a small group guide in our church's confirmation program, using the Here We Stand curriculum, I'm seriously considering Homeschooling my own kids through the catechism!  This would be more in line with Luther's intentions, anyway.

Karl E. Moyer

Are not social statements understood as statements of the Church to society, as opposed to statements of the  Church to  herself?  If so, then it seems strange, the amount of space the proposed social statement on education spends, discussing eduation within the life of the Church -- and maybe especially at the parish-life level.  Do not such concerns fall more under the scope of the Division for Parish _______ -- or whatever it's called this week -- instead of the social ministry people's division?   

   I find the statement made weak because of its lack of stronger focus on education in the Left Hand of God.   Or am I missing something here?


EENGELBRECHT

Quote from: Laroki on August 08, 2007, 12:05:46 AM
We are probably one of three homeschooling families in the entire ELCA, (just a stab in the dark-I have no stats) and it's pretty lonely!  I just picked up an old book on Luther and education.  Perhaps I will find some gems there.  After having spent a year being a small group guide in our church's confirmation program, using the Here We Stand curriculum, I'm seriously considering Homeschooling my own kids through the catechism!  This would be more in line with Luther's intentions, anyway.

There are a fair number of homeschoolers in the LCMS and the number seems to be growing. CPH gets requests for curriculum by homeschoolers all the time. I'm guessing the ELCA homeschoolers aren't networked as is happening in LCMS.

In Christ,
EE

MMH

Quote from: Laroki on August 08, 2007, 12:05:46 AMSort of puzzling, isn't it?  We are probably one of three homeschooling families in the entire ELCA, (just a stab in the dark-I have no stats) and it's pretty lonely!  I just picked up an old book on Luther and education.  Perhaps I will find some gems there.  After having spent a year being a small group guide in our church's confirmation program, using the Here We Stand curriculum, I'm seriously considering Homeschooling my own kids through the catechism!  This would be more in line with Luther's intentions, anyway.

Actually- there are more than 3.  In the last Conference of which I was a part before my present call, one of the other pastors indicated to me at a meeting that he didn't know of any Lutheran homeschoolers.  I looked around the room and pointed out that between 1/3 to 1/2 of the parishes represented there had families who were part of the homeschool support group to which we belonged.  That did not cover the other support groups in the county, or those who had decided to go totally solo.

I know of a few ELCA families here in DE, so we are out there.

When my wife & I tried to volunteer as homeschooling parents when the task force was being assembled, we were gaffed off.  Quelle surprise!  I wish I could claim a conspiracy was afoot within the ELCA to repress homeschooling.  But a conspiracy implies that there are people of intelligence acting in a manner that indicates they know what they are doing.

In large part because the document under discussion buries its head in the sand with regards to the secular origins of modern public education theory in the US.  Nowhere, when I used word search  in the document, did I find reference to John Dewey.  And it is not like this stuff is hidden away from public view.  I would love to know, given the fact that they want to discuss Church colleges & universities, what alternative the Education departments at these schools will offer to the secularist fundamentalist agendas developed by Dewey & those who have followed in his footsteps.

Teaching teaching is not a values neutral activity.

Here is yet another group to whom evangelical outreach could be made, but we won't. Many of the folks who homeschool doso because they do not like the ideas being promulgated in their schools.  That does not make them slack-jawed homophobe racist fundamentalists.  The support of a Sacramental church that (at least claims it) prizes education would be a good thing.  I notice from EE's post that LCMS is catching, as is CPH.  It would take too long to tell you about the rather frustrating and condescending phone call my wife had with someone from AFP asking about homeschool materials.  It boils down to this- I suppose I should be happy that AFP would rather be right (or in this case, left) than make money.



Matt+

EENGELBRECHT

Quote from: Matt Hummel on August 08, 2007, 08:51:19 AM
The support of a Sacramental church that (at least claims it) prizes education would be a good thing.  I notice from EE's post that LCMS is catching, as is CPH.  It would take too long to tell you about the rather frustrating and condescending phone call my wife had with someone from AFP asking about homeschool materials.  It boils down to this- I suppose I should be happy that AFP would rather be right (or in this case, left) than make money.

The parochial school system in the LCMS is mighty strong. As a consequence CPH focuses quite naturally on the needs of those schools. I believe the favorite items home schoolers use from CPH are "Luther's Small Catechism with Explanation," "One Hundred Bible Stories," and accompanying workbooks. I imagine the revised "Advanced Bible History" and workbook would also fall in this category. CPH has not yet produced a product line specifically for home schoolers but there have been discussions. I think I've seen refs to homeschoolers in CPH ad copy.

In Christ,
EE

1Ptr5v67

Who is Charles Austin working FOR at this CWA?



Quote from: Richard Johnson on August 07, 2007, 05:06:18 PM
More about plenary 3:

. . . . . . .

(4) While the new bishops were being introduced, I noticed that Charles Austin was doing a crossword puzzle on his laptop. Kept doing it during the ovation for re-elected bishop Hanson, too. No respect.

. . . . . . . . .


On 8/3/07 Charles wrote:
QuoteI will be away, working at the ELCA Assembly,  . . . .

fleur-de-lis

David Charlton

#25
Mark Hummel said:
I would love to know, given the fact that they want to discuss Church colleges & universities, what alternative the Education departments at these schools will offer to the secularist fundamentalist agendas developed by Dewey & those who have followed in his footsteps.


I reply:
I'm afraid that the situation is getting worse at Church colleges & universities.  In the past few years, my alma mater, a ELCA Lutheran college, decided to reduce the number of core classes required in the humanities, philosophy and religion.  The result is that a liberal arts education at a Lutheran college is becoming more, not less, like and education at a public college or university.  What C.S. Lewis called "The Abolition of Man" continues in Lutheran colleges, I'm afraid.


Riegel

Quote(2) There's an interesting article stating that the average age of lay voting members from the West-Virginia-Western Maryland Synod is 21. How did this happen, the synod has five voting members, which would include the bishop, the vice-president, and one clergy, one lay male, and one lay female. The latter two are both 21 year old students—one preparing to be a pastor, the other preparing to be a deaconess. (Can you figure out which is which?)

The Veep of the WV-WMD Synod is not automatically a voting member to Churchwide Assembly.  There's a long stiry here, but I shan't recount it.  WV-WMD Synod Council took advantage of a codicil in ELCA C,B,&CRs which reads
Quote12.41.22. Unless otherwise determined by the synod, the synodical vice president shall serve as a voting member of the Churchwide Assembly.
Consequently, the Veep must stand election like everyone else if he/she wants to be a voting member of the CA.

WV-WMD was allotted 5 seats this year.  Our normal allotment is 4, but we one of the synods that got the POCOPLOE (Person of Color or Primary Language other than English) seats that moves around.  Our normal allotment is divvied up by the SC as follows: 1 bishop, 1 clergy, 1 male lay, 1 female lay.  Since the POCOPLOE seat was won by a cleric, the lay portion of the delegation (I'm sorry, I can't come up with a better term to conform with the notion that they are voting members and not delegates ::)) was two.  The lay portion was the 1 male (Jason Felici, 21) and 1 female (Rebecca "Becca" Grate, 21).  Hence, the average age of the lay voting members from WV-WMD was 21.

It should be noted that Jason ran against the Synod Veep and at least two other people (if I remember correctly) and won on the third ballot.  Becca won on the first ballot (if I remember correctly), running against the wife of the Synod Veep--whether there were others on the ballot, I don't remember.  Now this is important...these were not token elections.  WV-WMD does not, like some synods, have seats to CA designated for youth.  Jason and Becca won on their own merits.

For the curious, WV-WMD did send the Veep and the Veep-elect to CA as visitors.

aberaussie

QuoteSort of puzzling, isn't it?  We are probably one of three homeschooling families in the entire ELCA, (just a stab in the dark-I have no stats) and it's pretty lonely!  I just picked up an old book on Luther and education.  Perhaps I will find some gems there.  After having spent a year being a small group guide in our church's confirmation program, using the Here We Stand curriculum, I'm seriously considering Homeschooling my own kids through the catechism!  This would be more in line with Luther's intentions, anyway.

Well, there are at least three homeschooling families at my ELCA church, so you are not alone!

There was little mention of homeschooling in the social statement, just included several times in lists of types of education.  The ELCA is very invested (philosophically, I think) in public education.

Katie Abercrombie
Katie Abercrombie

Charles_Austin

Katie Abercrombie writes:
There was little mention of homeschooling in the social statement, just included several times in lists of types of education.  The ELCA is very invested (philosophically, I think) in public education.

I note:
Yes. And since the purpose of "social" statements is to teach our members about issues in "society" and help the church speak to institutions of "society," it is logical that the massive system of public education be the main focus of the statement.

aberaussie

Quote

I note:
Yes. And since the purpose of "social" statements is to teach our members about issues in "society" and help the church speak to institutions of "society," it is logical that the massive system of public education be the main focus of the statement.

I try not to be easily offended, Charles, but could you tell me the meaning of your putting the words above in quotation marks?  One could interpret that as sarcasm...or even that you thought that you were talking down to someone who was much less intelligent or much less well informed than yourself....

And to clarify my earlier statements, as a homeschooler for 15 years and as an ELCA member for even longer, I have found there to be very little support in the ELCA for homeschooling or even for education in Christian schools.  That is a philosophical issue, not just an issue of the fact that public education is so massive.  We feel compelled to speak prophetically on other issues, why not on encouraging other choices in education?

Katie Abercrombie
Katie Abercrombie

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