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A Few Gaudete Reflections

Started by Weedon, December 13, 2020, 11:20:30 AM

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John_Hannah

Quote from: J. Eriksson on January 10, 2021, 08:10:44 AM
A couple of things:

1. aren't some of the Latin Sunday names taken from the first word of the Latin Introits? I miss the Introits and reading them has been part of my Sunday prep choosing hymns etc for Gaudate 'Rejoice all ye believers' seems an appropriate first hymn

2. When did Rose become the Lutheran liturgical color for the 3rd Sunday of advent?  Luther Reed lists purple as the liturgical color for it. p.468  LBW p 9 lists purple or blue.  My Japanese Anglican calendar shows purple as the liturgical color for the 3rd Sunday for 2021.

3. Iirc the church of my youth 1960s didn't much care what color the Advent candles were but just that we had them. A lot of members having survived the great depression when provincial gdp was actually negative had great difficulty giving themselves permission to spend money on consumables.  Pastors salary, missions and synod were much more important.   I'm quite convinced that those dear souls in the altar guild picked up next years candles at the post Christmas sales.

4.  Thinking about it with a little wax dye I have enough free wax(from wedding chapel stubbies) to make an violet /rose  set of Advent candles for all the churches in Hokkaido... my thanks to the thread for seeding this idea.  will it germinate?

James in japan
my best to all

1.  Yes. I think all of them are from the Latin introits.

2.  Probably, we simply borrowed it from Rome.

3.   ;D

4.  Go for it!

Peace, JOHN in the Bronx
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Weedon

#31
1. Most are introits. But you have the gesimatide Sundays that are number based. And Rogate, which is from the Gospel of the day. Go figure.

2.  Rose is mentioned in our Altar Guild Manual, but it is not in the actual rubrics of The LSB.

3.  4. What John said!!!

Richard Johnson

I don't really care what color the candles are. Just DON'T give them names, and DON'T stick a "Christ candle" in the middle of the wreath!
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: Richard Johnson on January 10, 2021, 03:07:04 PM
I don't really care what color the candles are. Just DON'T give them names, and DON'T stick a "Christ candle" in the middle of the wreath!


What if someone else (like the member who made the large wreath) sticks one in the middle?
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

J. Thomas Shelley

#34
Rose as a liturgical color for the Third Sunday of Advent and the Fourth Sunday in Lent (Laetare) is believed to have originated as a visual signal that the halfway point of each penitential season had been passed. 

A lightening of the Fast, but only color-wise; or perhaps a hint of greater and brighter joys to come.
Greek Orthodox Deacon - Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on January 10, 2021, 04:49:45 PM
Quote from: Richard Johnson on January 10, 2021, 03:07:04 PM
I don't really care what color the candles are. Just DON'T give them names, and DON'T stick a "Christ candle" in the middle of the wreath!


What if someone else (like the member who made the large wreath) sticks one in the middle?

Take it away from the Advent wreath and repurpose it as some kind of a stand-alone Christmas candle. Preferably in the narthex.

I really try my best not to grind my teeth at things happening in my previous parish, but one that just drives me bananas is that after nearly 30 years of teaching and frequent references to the Paschal candle, all of a sudden it has (thanks to interim pastoral leadership, I imagine) become the "Christ Candle." Ugh.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

J. Thomas Shelley

Quote from: Richard Johnson on January 10, 2021, 08:29:59 PM
I really try my best not to grind my teeth at things happening in my previous parish, but one that just drives me bananas is that after nearly 30 years of teaching and frequent references to the Paschal candle, all of a sudden it has (thanks to interim pastoral leadership, I imagine) become the "Christ Candle." Ugh.

I remember Fr. Leonard  Klein of blessed memory saying when Christ, York, was without an Associate Pastor that "this congregation is only one heartbeat away from heresy"

Or, more precisely to this situation, "one heartbeat away from heteropraxy"
Greek Orthodox Deacon - Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

J. Thomas Shelley

Quote from: Tom Eckstein on December 13, 2020, 12:43:18 PM
Quote from: Weedon on December 13, 2020, 11:20:30 AM
I know that most folks don't use the historic lectionary, but in that lectionary today is the reason for the rose candle in the advent wreath, from the opening lines of the lntroit. Some reflections on the day:

https://weedon.blogspot.com/2020/12/gaudete.html

I sometimes need to correct my elders who light the advent wreath.  They sometimes assume the pink candle is for the 4th Sunday in Advent.  But their misunderstanding allows for a teaching moment.

Logically, the candle lighted on the First Sunday of Advent should be the one 180˚ opposite the Gaudete candle.

It is only on Western Gaudete that the Orthodox Church begins to use lessons specific to the approach of the Feast of the Nativity.   For the first two Sundays of Western Advent the Orthodox lectionary simply continues the post-Pentecost sequence, which of course allows for some year-to-year variability.
Greek Orthodox Deacon - Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Timothy Schenks

Quote from: Weedon on December 13, 2020, 11:20:30 AM
I know that most folks don't use the historic lectionary, but in that lectionary today is the reason for the rose candle in the advent wreath, from the opening lines of the lntroit. Some reflections on the day:

https://weedon.blogspot.com/2020/12/gaudete.html

My congregation used the Historic One-Year Lectionary for about twelve years, switching it to it after we adopted the Lutheran Service Book. It was great being able to compare the appointed verses with Luther's Postils, Higher Things' Reflections, and the Walther devotional "God Grant It." Unfortunately, our recent vacancy pastor, and now permanent pastor, uses the Three-Year at his other congregation so we are kind of stuck with it.
LCMS Layman

Timothy Schenks

It looks like Pr. Weeden has deleted his account here since I last visited. He got rid of his Facebook too. That makes me very sad.
LCMS Layman

J. Thomas Shelley

Quote from: Timothy Schenks on December 17, 2021, 02:53:32 AM
It looks like Pr. Weeden has deleted his account here since I last visited. He got rid of his Facebook too. That makes me very sad.

His blogspot link is still good.
Greek Orthodox Deacon - Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

J. Thomas Shelley

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on December 13, 2020, 07:30:59 PM
Quote from: Weedon on December 13, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
J. Thomas, that could almost be a meme for the Lutheran Church: the Chronicle of Memories Forgotten.


But there are also those old memories that are held tightly. Or, in other words, "This is the way we've always done it."

And, like Tevye playing a fiddle on the roof, we must find the balance point between being well-rooted and stagnating by becoming root-bound.
Greek Orthodox Deacon - Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

J. Thomas Shelley

#42
Quote from: J. Thomas Shelley on December 14, 2020, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: Weedon on December 14, 2020, 02:26:47 PMI literally had an email this morning from a lady asking me to do a show on the O Antiphons with their Latin titles because she finds that so fascinating (and I am on an upcoming Issues interview).

And back to the O's, if you translate the Latin without giving it, you lose the surprise at the end: ERO CRAS. Which is part of their great fun!

        LATIN ENGLISH      GREEK GERMAN

17 Sapiente Wisdom        Sophia Weisheit

18 Adonai Adonai/Lord Adonai/Kyrios Adonai
 
19 Radix        Rod                Ravdos Spoub

20 Clavis Key                Kleidi Schlussel

21 Oriens Dayspring        Orien/Anatoli Morgenstern

22 Rex      King                Vasilias Konig

23 Emmanuel Emmanuel        Emmanuel Immanuel

The *other* surprise ending is that the Hebrew "God is with us" is universal--like Alleluia and Amen.
An augmentation of my previous post to include Greek.

It is very interesting to observe the Greek-Latin-German/English progression; some outliers, some cognates, and blessedly two universally proclaimed:  Adonai and Emmanuel.

Vas is dat?

LATIN ENGLISH GREEK GERMAN
17 Sapiente Wisdom Sophia Weisheit
18 Adonai Adonai/Lord Adonai/Kyrios Adonai
19 Radix Rod(Root) Ravdos Spoub
20 Clavis Key Kleidi Schlussel
21 Oriens Dayspring Orien/Anatoli Morgenstern
22 Rex King Vasilias Konig
23 Emmanuel Emmanuel Emmanuel Immanuel



Greek Orthodox Deacon - Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: J. Thomas Shelley on December 18, 2023, 01:41:23 AM
Quote from: J. Thomas Shelley on December 14, 2020, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: Weedon on December 14, 2020, 02:26:47 PMI literally had an email this morning from a lady asking me to do a show on the O Antiphons with their Latin titles because she finds that so fascinating (and I am on an upcoming Issues interview).

And back to the O's, if you translate the Latin without giving it, you lose the surprise at the end: ERO CRAS. Which is part of their great fun!

        LATIN ENGLISH      GREEK GERMAN

17 Sapiente Wisdom        Sophia Weisheit

18 Adonai Adonai/Lord Adonai/Kyrios Adonai
 
19 Radix        Rod                Ravdos Spoub

20 Clavis Key                Kleidi Schlussel

21 Oriens Dayspring        Orien/Anatoli Morgenstern

22 Rex      King                Vasilias Konig

23 Emmanuel Emmanuel        Emmanuel Immanuel

The *other* surprise ending is that the Hebrew "God is with us" is universal--like Alleluia and Amen.
An augmentation of my previous post to include Greek.

It is very interesting to observe the Greek-Latin-German/English progression; some outliers, some cognates, and blessedly two universally proclaimed:  Adonai and Emmanuel.

Vas is dat?

LATIN ENGLISH GREEK GERMAN
17 Sapiente Wisdom Sophia Weisheit
18 Adonai Adonai/Lord Adonai/Kyrios Adonai
19 Radix Rod(Root) Ravdos Spoub
20 Clavis Key Kleidi Schlussel
21 Oriens Dayspring Orien/Anatoli Morgenstern
22 Rex King Vasilias Konig
23 Emmanuel Emmanuel Emmanuel Immanuel
In regards to the different spellings of the last term. "Emmanuel" comes from the Greek, Ἐμμανουήλ, where the first letter is like our letter "E". The spelling, "Immanuel" comes from the Hebrew, עִמָּנוּאֵל, where the first vowel pointing is like our letter "I".
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

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