Baptism: Ecclesial or "private" ?

Started by J. Thomas Shelley, July 31, 2020, 11:48:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

J. Thomas Shelley

Pastor Hannah:

The West follows that pattern set forth by Hippolytus with the Q & A. 

In the East the Creed is recited in its entirety, not section by section.

Pastor Benke:

Godparents must be Orthodox.  There are strict rules for ensuring that there is no confusion of affinity because close kinship (five degrees of affinity in some jurisdictions, seven in others) prohibits marriage.   So a couple might not want to choose a couple close to their age with children close in age because their children would be prevented from would be like marrying your first cousin, except that the kinship is by affinity, not blood.  So oftentimes the Godparents are an Aunt and Uncle.
Greek Orthodox Deacon - Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

David Garner

Quote from: Weedon on August 02, 2020, 10:44:36 AM

It is worth noting that the Lutheran Baptismal liturgy preserves that unity in several key points. First, of course, there is always the laying on of hand, with the option of also anointing, right after the Baptism is received, with the prayer for strengthening (confirming in the faith); second, at the conclusion of the Baptismal rite itself the final blessing is: "Peace be with you" which links and points toward the Pax domini of the Divine Liturgy. Finally, in the exhortation to the sponsors, the link is made explicit: "They are to pray for them, support them in their ongoing instruction and nurture in the Christian faith and encourage them toward the faithful reception of the Lord's Supper." The liturgy of Holy Baptism testifies from start to finish of its ecclesial intent and setting. Baptism incorporates into the Body of Christ and is ever unto the reception of the Body and Blood of Christ.

Indeed it does.  One thing I appreciate about historic communions and their use of historic liturgies is they tend to preserve the things the liturgy has kept intact.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on August 02, 2020, 10:40:44 PM
Quote from: Weedon on August 02, 2020, 01:33:59 PM
At least as far as I can discern, though, Rob, the example of Scripture tends to be that Baptism is administered almost immediately upon it being requested, at least as we have it in Acts. So it seems to me that the burden of proof would lie with those who would recommend delaying the washing of regeneration to certain set feasts. There are certainly times the instruction preceding was quite minimal - the Ethiopian Eunuch and the Philippian jailor and family, to bring those two forward again.

Hippolytus indicates that converts who wanted baptism normally had to wait three years and undergo instruction and examination of their lives before they could be baptized.

I was just going to point this out -- at least in my observed practice in 2 communions (Lutheran and Orthodox), it is customary, if possible, to coincide reception of converts undergoing catechesis with a feast day.  With infants, this is almost never done.  We baptize infants in the Orthodox Church within a reasonable time after their birth, and do not wait for a high feast day.

My wife and I were baptized and confirmed in the Lutheran Church at Easter, and were chrismated in the Orthodox Church at the Nativity.  Our children were all baptized shortly after their births (all in the Lutheran Church, but in 3 separate parishes).  They were also chrismated, however, at the Nativity.

So to my mind, given that in the Orthodox Church we are typically catechizing for a long period of time (at least 6 months, often longer), we wait to receive converts, even if baptism is required, until their catechesis is complete, and this almost always works out to where we can do it at the Nativity or at Pascha.  For those times where this cannot be done, we will receive them at any time -- two of my godsons were baptized and chrismated last summer for example, neither coinciding with a particular feast.  This was largely because their parents were being catechized and wanted to be chrismated at the end of their catechesis, and Nativity was 5 months or so away.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk