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The End of the NYT

Started by Mark Brown, June 07, 2020, 08:04:58 PM

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Brian Stoffregen

#75
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 01:33:24 PM
Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: David Garner on June 09, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 11:04:42 AM
Quote from: James_Gale on June 09, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on June 09, 2020, 12:20:06 AM
Let us not be intentionally stupid. The discussion about changes in the police force does not mean abolishing law enforcement. It does not mean there would be no police.

A veto-proof majority of the Minneapolis City Council say otherwise.  "Disband" and "dismantle" are not ambiguous words.  The "discussion" is very much about eliminating law enforcement.  One council member proposed replacing police officers with social workers as first responders to reports of crime. 

That said, I agree with you that Minneapolis ultimately will not disband or dismantle its police department; at most, it will change the department's name and reorganize a bit.  But by expressly pledging to do so, the council majority either are lying or are too caught up in the moment to realize the "stupidity" (as you put it) of what they propose.

"Speaking on CNN's "Cuomo Prime Time" Monday night, [Mpls Council President] Lisa Bender took the idea of disbanding the police a step further.

Host Chris Cuomo told her: "When you say you see someday being police-free that sounds aspirational, a utopian concept where nobody's committing any crime, because as long as these communities are being preyed upon, both from within and without, there's gonna have to be good men and women willing to step up to keep people safe."

She replied: "I think the idea of having a police-free future is very aspirational, and I am willing to stand with community members who are asking us to think of that as the goal."

The main problem with leftist thinking in America is too many of them think man is perfectible by rules.

So, the Ten Commandments have no place in American (or Christian) lives? Why do you believe God gave his people the 613 rules in the Torah?

My, you are on quite the illogical role today! Mr. Garner stated nothing for which anyone would come to your conclusion.


What conclusion? I asked questions? What are your answers? What's the purpose of rules? (Note, I'm still asking questions not making conclusions.) It seems quite illogical to me to turn a question into a conclusion. There's a difference between ? and . and the end of a sentence.
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

Donald_Kirchner

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 01:33:24 PM
Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: David Garner on June 09, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 11:04:42 AM
Quote from: James_Gale on June 09, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on June 09, 2020, 12:20:06 AM
Let us not be intentionally stupid. The discussion about changes in the police force does not mean abolishing law enforcement. It does not mean there would be no police.

A veto-proof majority of the Minneapolis City Council say otherwise.  "Disband" and "dismantle" are not ambiguous words.  The "discussion" is very much about eliminating law enforcement.  One council member proposed replacing police officers with social workers as first responders to reports of crime. 

That said, I agree with you that Minneapolis ultimately will not disband or dismantle its police department; at most, it will change the department's name and reorganize a bit.  But by expressly pledging to do so, the council majority either are lying or are too caught up in the moment to realize the "stupidity" (as you put it) of what they propose.

"Speaking on CNN's "Cuomo Prime Time" Monday night, [Mpls Council President] Lisa Bender took the idea of disbanding the police a step further.

Host Chris Cuomo told her: "When you say you see someday being police-free that sounds aspirational, a utopian concept where nobody's committing any crime, because as long as these communities are being preyed upon, both from within and without, there's gonna have to be good men and women willing to step up to keep people safe."

She replied: "I think the idea of having a police-free future is very aspirational, and I am willing to stand with community members who are asking us to think of that as the goal."

The main problem with leftist thinking in America is too many of them think man is perfectible by rules.

So, the Ten Commandments have no place in American (or Christian) lives? Why do you believe God gave his people the 613 rules in the Torah?

My, you are on quite the illogical role today! Mr. Garner stated nothing for which anyone would come to your conclusion.

What conclusion? I asked questions? What are your answers? What's the purpose of rules? (Note, I'm still asking questions not making conclusions.) It seems quite illogical to me to turn a question into a conclusion. There's a difference between ? and . and the end of a sentence.

So, that's why you use such illogical methods. It's logic 101, Brian. Of course a conclusion can be in the form of a question.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

David Garner

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: David Garner on June 09, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 11:04:42 AM
Quote from: James_Gale on June 09, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on June 09, 2020, 12:20:06 AM
Let us not be intentionally stupid. The discussion about changes in the police force does not mean abolishing law enforcement. It does not mean there would be no police.

A veto-proof majority of the Minneapolis City Council say otherwise.  "Disband" and "dismantle" are not ambiguous words.  The "discussion" is very much about eliminating law enforcement.  One council member proposed replacing police officers with social workers as first responders to reports of crime. 

That said, I agree with you that Minneapolis ultimately will not disband or dismantle its police department; at most, it will change the department's name and reorganize a bit.  But by expressly pledging to do so, the council majority either are lying or are too caught up in the moment to realize the "stupidity" (as you put it) of what they propose.

"Speaking on CNN's "Cuomo Prime Time" Monday night, [Mpls Council President] Lisa Bender took the idea of disbanding the police a step further.

Host Chris Cuomo told her: "When you say you see someday being police-free that sounds aspirational, a utopian concept where nobody's committing any crime, because as long as these communities are being preyed upon, both from within and without, there's gonna have to be good men and women willing to step up to keep people safe."

She replied: "I think the idea of having a police-free future is very aspirational, and I am willing to stand with community members who are asking us to think of that as the goal."

The main problem with leftist thinking in America is too many of them think man is perfectible by rules.


So, the Ten Commandments have no place in American (or Christian) lives? Why do you believe God gave his people the 613 rules in the Torah?

Do you really think the Ten Commandments perfect mankind?
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 01:58:27 PM
Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 01:33:24 PM
Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: David Garner on June 09, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 11:04:42 AM
Quote from: James_Gale on June 09, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on June 09, 2020, 12:20:06 AM
Let us not be intentionally stupid. The discussion about changes in the police force does not mean abolishing law enforcement. It does not mean there would be no police.

A veto-proof majority of the Minneapolis City Council say otherwise.  "Disband" and "dismantle" are not ambiguous words.  The "discussion" is very much about eliminating law enforcement.  One council member proposed replacing police officers with social workers as first responders to reports of crime. 

That said, I agree with you that Minneapolis ultimately will not disband or dismantle its police department; at most, it will change the department's name and reorganize a bit.  But by expressly pledging to do so, the council majority either are lying or are too caught up in the moment to realize the "stupidity" (as you put it) of what they propose.

"Speaking on CNN's "Cuomo Prime Time" Monday night, [Mpls Council President] Lisa Bender took the idea of disbanding the police a step further.

Host Chris Cuomo told her: "When you say you see someday being police-free that sounds aspirational, a utopian concept where nobody's committing any crime, because as long as these communities are being preyed upon, both from within and without, there's gonna have to be good men and women willing to step up to keep people safe."

She replied: "I think the idea of having a police-free future is very aspirational, and I am willing to stand with community members who are asking us to think of that as the goal."

The main problem with leftist thinking in America is too many of them think man is perfectible by rules.

So, the Ten Commandments have no place in American (or Christian) lives? Why do you believe God gave his people the 613 rules in the Torah?

My, you are on quite the illogical role today! Mr. Garner stated nothing for which anyone would come to your conclusion.

What conclusion? I asked questions? What are your answers? What's the purpose of rules? (Note, I'm still asking questions not making conclusions.) It seems quite illogical to me to turn a question into a conclusion. There's a difference between ? and . and the end of a sentence.

So, that's why you use such illogical methods. It's logic 101, Brian. Of course a conclusion can be in the form of a question.


Please enlighten me as to the conclusion I was making by the question. Oh, and explain why you think it's my conclusion from the question rather than a conclusion you made about me because of the question.


And now for a statement: Your attempt to know what's in my head does more to reveal what's going on in your head than in mine.
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: David Garner on June 09, 2020, 02:05:00 PM
Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: David Garner on June 09, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 11:04:42 AM
Quote from: James_Gale on June 09, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on June 09, 2020, 12:20:06 AM
Let us not be intentionally stupid. The discussion about changes in the police force does not mean abolishing law enforcement. It does not mean there would be no police.

A veto-proof majority of the Minneapolis City Council say otherwise.  "Disband" and "dismantle" are not ambiguous words.  The "discussion" is very much about eliminating law enforcement.  One council member proposed replacing police officers with social workers as first responders to reports of crime. 

That said, I agree with you that Minneapolis ultimately will not disband or dismantle its police department; at most, it will change the department's name and reorganize a bit.  But by expressly pledging to do so, the council majority either are lying or are too caught up in the moment to realize the "stupidity" (as you put it) of what they propose.

"Speaking on CNN's "Cuomo Prime Time" Monday night, [Mpls Council President] Lisa Bender took the idea of disbanding the police a step further.

Host Chris Cuomo told her: "When you say you see someday being police-free that sounds aspirational, a utopian concept where nobody's committing any crime, because as long as these communities are being preyed upon, both from within and without, there's gonna have to be good men and women willing to step up to keep people safe."

She replied: "I think the idea of having a police-free future is very aspirational, and I am willing to stand with community members who are asking us to think of that as the goal."

The main problem with leftist thinking in America is too many of them think man is perfectible by rules.


So, the Ten Commandments have no place in American (or Christian) lives? Why do you believe God gave his people the 613 rules in the Torah?

Do you really think the Ten Commandments perfect mankind?


No. There are other reasons why God gave the commandments and why faithful people seek to keep them. There are other reasons why governments impose laws and why people seek to keep them. Becoming perfect is not one of those reasons - and I consider myself one of those leftist thinking Americans. I object to the mischaracterization.
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

Donald_Kirchner

You are talking in circles, Brian.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 08:04:55 PM
You are talking in circles, Brian.


'Cause I'm well-rounded.


Actually, I don't understand your critique. What circle are you hearing, 'cause I don't see my writing one?
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

David Garner

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 06:13:17 PM
Quote from: David Garner on June 09, 2020, 02:05:00 PM
Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 09, 2020, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: David Garner on June 09, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on June 09, 2020, 11:04:42 AM
Quote from: James_Gale on June 09, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on June 09, 2020, 12:20:06 AM
Let us not be intentionally stupid. The discussion about changes in the police force does not mean abolishing law enforcement. It does not mean there would be no police.

A veto-proof majority of the Minneapolis City Council say otherwise.  "Disband" and "dismantle" are not ambiguous words.  The "discussion" is very much about eliminating law enforcement.  One council member proposed replacing police officers with social workers as first responders to reports of crime. 

That said, I agree with you that Minneapolis ultimately will not disband or dismantle its police department; at most, it will change the department's name and reorganize a bit.  But by expressly pledging to do so, the council majority either are lying or are too caught up in the moment to realize the "stupidity" (as you put it) of what they propose.

"Speaking on CNN's "Cuomo Prime Time" Monday night, [Mpls Council President] Lisa Bender took the idea of disbanding the police a step further.

Host Chris Cuomo told her: "When you say you see someday being police-free that sounds aspirational, a utopian concept where nobody's committing any crime, because as long as these communities are being preyed upon, both from within and without, there's gonna have to be good men and women willing to step up to keep people safe."

She replied: "I think the idea of having a police-free future is very aspirational, and I am willing to stand with community members who are asking us to think of that as the goal."

The main problem with leftist thinking in America is too many of them think man is perfectible by rules.


So, the Ten Commandments have no place in American (or Christian) lives? Why do you believe God gave his people the 613 rules in the Torah?

Do you really think the Ten Commandments perfect mankind?


No. There are other reasons why God gave the commandments and why faithful people seek to keep them. There are other reasons why governments impose laws and why people seek to keep them. Becoming perfect is not one of those reasons - and I consider myself one of those leftist thinking Americans. I object to the mischaracterization.

You being an exception doesn't demonstrate any micharacterization. A hit dog is the one that hollers. If it doesn't apply to you, no need to yelp.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Mark Brown

I can't say stunning anymore because it is clear what the NYT's has become.  Neither can I really say powerful, because I doubt even this would cause any reflection by those left.  But this resignation letter from Bari Weiss should be both of those things stunning and powerful.  There just aren't ears to hear at the NYT. https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

QuoteTwitter is not on the masthead of The New York Times. But Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions. I was always taught that journalists were charged with writing the first rough draft of history. Now, history itself is one more ephemeral thing molded to fit the needs of a predetermined narrative.

My own forays into Wrongthink have made me the subject of constant bullying by colleagues who disagree with my views. They have called me a Nazi and a racist; I have learned to brush off comments about how I'm "writing about the Jews again." Several colleagues perceived to be friendly with me were badgered by coworkers. My work and my character are openly demeaned on company-wide Slack channels where masthead editors regularly weigh in. There, some coworkers insist I need to be rooted out if this company is to be a truly "inclusive" one, while others post ax emojis next to my name. Still other New York Times employees publicly smear me as a liar and a bigot on Twitter with no fear that harassing me will be met with appropriate action. They never are.

There are terms for all of this: unlawful discrimination, hostile work environment, and constructive discharge. I'm no legal expert. But I know that this is wrong.

Maybe I should have cross-posted on mobbing... (It might also have some reflection on that phenomenon.  Why those who are generally "on the right" just couldn't believe anything about that, while it was those generally "on the left" who took it immediately as gospel.  Political cleansing of formerly broadly liberal institutions is a much much bigger thing on the left.)

David Garner

Quote from: Mark Brown on July 14, 2020, 12:10:25 PM
I can't say stunning anymore because it is clear what the NYT's has become.  Neither can I really say powerful, because I doubt even this would cause any reflection by those left.  But this resignation letter from Bari Weiss should be both of those things stunning and powerful.  There just aren't ears to hear at the NYT. https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

QuoteTwitter is not on the masthead of The New York Times. But Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions. I was always taught that journalists were charged with writing the first rough draft of history. Now, history itself is one more ephemeral thing molded to fit the needs of a predetermined narrative.

My own forays into Wrongthink have made me the subject of constant bullying by colleagues who disagree with my views. They have called me a Nazi and a racist; I have learned to brush off comments about how I'm "writing about the Jews again." Several colleagues perceived to be friendly with me were badgered by coworkers. My work and my character are openly demeaned on company-wide Slack channels where masthead editors regularly weigh in. There, some coworkers insist I need to be rooted out if this company is to be a truly "inclusive" one, while others post ax emojis next to my name. Still other New York Times employees publicly smear me as a liar and a bigot on Twitter with no fear that harassing me will be met with appropriate action. They never are.

There are terms for all of this: unlawful discrimination, hostile work environment, and constructive discharge. I'm no legal expert. But I know that this is wrong.

Maybe I should have cross-posted on mobbing... (It might also have some reflection on that phenomenon.  Why those who are generally "on the right" just couldn't believe anything about that, while it was those generally "on the left" who took it immediately as gospel.  Political cleansing of formerly broadly liberal institutions is a much much bigger thing on the left.)

I have a FB friend who likes to say "anything a liberal is accusing you of, he is at that very moment doing himself."

Granted, by "liberal" he means "leftist," and that is a mighty broad brush.  But broadly speaking, I find it to be accurate.  Leftism strikes me as, with again rare exception, one gigantic exercise in psychological projection.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Weedon

David just referenced it on the other thread. That was a clarion call to the senile gray lady; but I think her brain is mush these days. She won't understand it.

David Garner

Quote from: Weedon on July 14, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
David just referenced it on the other thread. That was a clarion call to the senile gray lady; but I think her brain is mush these days. She won't understand it.

She confirms everything they smugly think of themselves.  To them, she just proved them right.

If you don't believe that, just watch Twitter.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

David Garner

Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

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