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Started by J. Eriksson, February 28, 2020, 09:18:34 PM

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Charles Austin

#5565
If you mean rotavirus, yeah, some of that goes on here. I've been vaccinated.
Meanwhile, vaccinations for children are highly recommended to prevent the spread to older adults; and children are getting infected because so many schools have been opening up.
I think Thanksgiving week-end will provide interesting data for those doubting the effectiveness of vaccinations, masks or other protocols.
Were I in NYC, I would avoid the Macy's parade. Were I "infected" with a sports mania, I would not go to any college or pro game this week-end.
Iowa-born. Long-time in NY/New Jersey, former LWF staff in Geneva.
ELCA PASTOR, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis. Often critical of the ELCA, but more often a defender of its mission. Ignoring the not-so-subtle rude insults which often appear here.

peter_speckhard

What makes you think children are getting infected because of schools opening? Transmission from child to child at school seems to be statistically very rare.

Dave Benke

Quote from: peter_speckhard on November 24, 2021, 10:45:15 AM
What makes you think children are getting infected because of schools opening? Transmission from child to child at school seems to be statistically very rare.

Here's the way they do it here in NYC - a daily interactive map:  https://www.schools.nyc.gov/school-life/health-and-wellness/covid-information/daily-covid-case-map

You can see pretty much what's going on in your neighborhood, and what was done to address positive cases, including classroom quarantines (10 days, I believe) up to school closures.  For a system this immense, I think the numbers are small, but are at around 7500 students and 10000 total.  This doesn't include the private and religious schools, so add a few thousand.  Still - the small percentage indicated in these numbers is something for which we give thanks in NY. 

At our church site, we would be included on this map since we're a vendor for NYC Department of Education, but we have had no cases - the nearest to us on the map is PS 108.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

Dan Fienen

In talking about the use of vaccines on children, the Thalidomide tragedy comes to mind. In the late 1950s and early 60s, Thalidomide was wide prescribed to pregnant women for nausea. What was not realized right away was that the drug was also a potent teratogen that produce horrific birth defects. But that was found out only after thousands of births were affected.


We've come a long way in the testing of medications, but especially with the speed of the development and testing of theses vaccines, a certain degree of hesitancy can be understood.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Charles Austin

Peter writes:
What makes you think children are getting infected because of schools opening? Transmission from child to child at school seems to be statistically very rare.
I comment:
Go ahead and post your statistics. I'll just note that around here it's the schools that have been open that had fast expansion in infections among children. Of course there are lots of ways for you and others here to explain away those particular happenings.
Iowa-born. Long-time in NY/New Jersey, former LWF staff in Geneva.
ELCA PASTOR, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis. Often critical of the ELCA, but more often a defender of its mission. Ignoring the not-so-subtle rude insults which often appear here.

Steven W Bohler

Quote from: Charles Austin on November 24, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
Peter writes:
What makes you think children are getting infected because of schools opening? Transmission from child to child at school seems to be statistically very rare.
I comment:
Go ahead and post your statistics. I'll just note that around here it's the schools that have been open that had fast expansion in infections among children. Of course there are lots of ways for you and others here to explain away those particular happenings.

We don't need statistics.  Just tell us what your niece, the nurse, says -- apparently that tells one all he needs to know.

peter_speckhard

Quote from: Charles Austin on November 24, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
Peter writes:
What makes you think children are getting infected because of schools opening? Transmission from child to child at school seems to be statistically very rare.
I comment:
Go ahead and post your statistics. I'll just note that around here it's the schools that have been open that had fast expansion in infections among children. Of course there are lots of ways for you and others here to explain away those particular happenings.
Our school closed for a couple of months when all this first started, and then reopened last year and this year. We have a full slate of extra-curriculars again, too. At our last council meeting it was reported that so far we've had fifty-two students get tested this year, with two positives cases. The schools that have remained closed have left their students far behind and with all kinds of related anxieties as they interact with the world purely online. Kids aren't even a vulnerable population. But true, if everyone else would just put their lives entirely on hold, some elderly people would be less likely to contract a disease for which they've already been vaccinated. 

Charles Austin

Peter, I understand that you are posing for the sake of your argument. But it's not the least bit convincing.
Pastor Bohler, I'm ignoring you again. Life just isn't worth the irritation of dealing with your intentional and overreaching pretenses. I think you may be taking them as wittiness, but you're wrong about that too.
But for the moment, I'll consider what you posted. Hey people! Guess what! There were not 746,000 deaths from Covid. They were only 735,000 deaths from Covid. The other 11,000 only died with Covid. Isn't that great?
Iowa-born. Long-time in NY/New Jersey, former LWF staff in Geneva.
ELCA PASTOR, ordained 1967. Former journalist. Retired in Minneapolis. Often critical of the ELCA, but more often a defender of its mission. Ignoring the not-so-subtle rude insults which often appear here.

Steven W Bohler

Quote from: Charles Austin on November 24, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
Peter, I understand that you are posing for the sake of your argument. But it's not the least bit convincing.
Pastor Bohler, I'm ignoring you again. Life just isn't worth the irritation of dealing with your intentional and overreaching pretenses. I think you may be taking them as wittiness, but you're wrong about that too.
But for the moment, I'll consider what you posted. Hey people! Guess what! There were not 746,000 deaths from Covid. They were only 735,000 deaths from Covid. The other 11,000 only died with Covid. Isn't that great?

You are not very good at numbers and math, obviously.  The CDC stats are that only 6% of COVID deaths were actually from COVID, while the other 94% had at least one co-morbidity.  So, the numbers would be 48,000 died of COVID and the other 752,000 would have died with other causes in addition to COVID.  And some of those 752,000 clearly were not the result of COVID at all (like the murder-suicide in Colorado).

James S. Rustad

Quote from: Steven W Bohler on November 24, 2021, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: Charles Austin on November 24, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
Peter, I understand that you are posing for the sake of your argument. But it's not the least bit convincing.
Pastor Bohler, I'm ignoring you again. Life just isn't worth the irritation of dealing with your intentional and overreaching pretenses. I think you may be taking them as wittiness, but you're wrong about that too.
But for the moment, I'll consider what you posted. Hey people! Guess what! There were not 746,000 deaths from Covid. They were only 735,000 deaths from Covid. The other 11,000 only died with Covid. Isn't that great?

You are not very good at numbers and math, obviously.  The CDC stats are that only 6% of COVID deaths were actually from COVID, while the other 94% had at least one co-morbidity.  So, the numbers would be 48,000 died of COVID and the other 752,000 would have died with other causes in addition to COVID.  And some of those 752,000 clearly were not the result of COVID at all (like the murder-suicide in Colorado).

Below is CDC data estimating the number of "excess deaths" in the US.  This is an attempt to quantify the difference in deaths between what they were with COVID (the real data) and what they would have been without COVID (the estimate).  The estimate of excess deaths is 713,032 as of September 25, 2021.

This does not differentiate between deaths "with" vs. "from".  It attempts only to explore the difference between the world with COVID vs. no COVID.  This difference would then include deaths where COVID was a contributing factor (people with comorbidities worsened by COVID), but not those where COVID was not a contributing factor (people killed by car accidents, for example).

Quote from: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -Thomas Jefferson

James S. Rustad

An interesting development as businesses deal with COVID, testing, and vaccination:

Quote from: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/large-ice-cream-manufacturer-faces-boycotts-for-raising-wage-of-vaccinated-workers/ar-AAR5KRF?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
Chapman's Ice Cream also announced that it would provide a vaccine incentive, paying workers who get vaccinated by the end of the month $1 more per hour.

Chapman attributed the decision to the amount of money the company plans to spend on testing for its unvaccinated employees. He said the calculated cost per unvaccinated employee came out to roughly $40 a person.

"As a family, we were chatting and it just seemed wrong we were spending that for the small amount of people who hadn't gotten vaccinated when we feel the people who did the right thing should be rewarded. Because it was also a bit of a slap in the face for them," he told Global News.

"It just felt like we were treating the unvaccinated better than we were the vaccinated," he said.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -Thomas Jefferson

James S. Rustad

Interesting parallels between today's opposition to the COVID vaccines and the opposition to the polio vaccine?

Quote from: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/one-lonely-wealthy-man-s-crusade-against-the-polio-vaccine/ar-AARa1pl?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
One Lonely, Wealthy Man's Crusade Against the Polio Vaccine
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -Thomas Jefferson

Dave Benke

Quote from: James S. Rustad on November 26, 2021, 11:20:59 AM
Interesting parallels between today's opposition to the COVID vaccines and the opposition to the polio vaccine?

Quote from: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/one-lonely-wealthy-man-s-crusade-against-the-polio-vaccine/ar-AARa1pl?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
One Lonely, Wealthy Man's Crusade Against the Polio Vaccine

That's a great article, James.  I think a difference today is the multiplication of anti-vaxx crusaders and conspiracy theorists. 

At Thanksgiving dinner yesterday with family, we the oldsters were talking specifically about polio, and the vaccine.  In Milwaukee back then, a ubiquitous phenomenon was the outdoor common drinking fountain constructed in such a way that we called them "bubblers."  And when polio was at its worst, the bubblers were abandoned for fear of contracting polio. 

Then came the vaccine.  Although we were, of course, educated at Lutheran schools, that didn't include kindergarten in most Lutheran systems, so my sister was at the public school.  She described the entire class of 35 or more standing on a line in a hallway, and the vaccine being administered shot in the arm one arm after another.  Not a peep from a parent.  Same at the Lutheran school.  Not a peep from a parent.  Not a qualm about vaccination.

A factor that should be mentioned is that Jonas Salk was a hero to virtually the entire country.  He didn't patent the vaccine or take any profit from it.  In the 50s Midwest, he was something we would by nature not have trusted.  He was a New York City Jew.  Not on the radar, at least not in a positive way.  But our parents had us give thanks to God at the dinner table for Dr. Salk, and for his vaccine. 

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

Dave Benke

Pfizer Booster administered to my right arm this afternoon.  Even as there are states and parts of states where there's lots of extra vaccine due to vaccine avoidance, so there are neighborhoods that are vaxx plus and vaxx minus.  Our Queens neighborhood is vaxx minus - it's on the high high end of percentage vaccinated.  So with the booster available to all adults, it's a two to three week wait in our zip code to get that booster.  Ergo, I checked our NYC vaccine portal and ended up nearer the church to get an immediate shot in the arm. 

Took virtually no time at all to enroll and get the shot in one of the last Teutonic holdout neighborhoods, Glendale (near Zum Stammtisch restaurant, viz.), right there on Myrtle Avenue at a neighborhood pharmacy named Trinity, of all things.  Expertly administered, as you would expect, by an Egyptian Muslim female pharmacist. 
Do other areas have this detailed information available online as to where the vaccine is available and how to sign up or call/come in?  It was really helpful for me.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

peter_speckhard

Quote from: Dave Benke on November 26, 2021, 03:34:35 PM
Quote from: James S. Rustad on November 26, 2021, 11:20:59 AM
Interesting parallels between today's opposition to the COVID vaccines and the opposition to the polio vaccine?

Quote from: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/one-lonely-wealthy-man-s-crusade-against-the-polio-vaccine/ar-AARa1pl?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
One Lonely, Wealthy Man's Crusade Against the Polio Vaccine

That's a great article, James.  I think a difference today is the multiplication of anti-vaxx crusaders and conspiracy theorists. 

At Thanksgiving dinner yesterday with family, we the oldsters were talking specifically about polio, and the vaccine.  In Milwaukee back then, a ubiquitous phenomenon was the outdoor common drinking fountain constructed in such a way that we called them "bubblers."  And when polio was at its worst, the bubblers were abandoned for fear of contracting polio. 

Then came the vaccine.  Although we were, of course, educated at Lutheran schools, that didn't include kindergarten in most Lutheran systems, so my sister was at the public school.  She described the entire class of 35 or more standing on a line in a hallway, and the vaccine being administered shot in the arm one arm after another.  Not a peep from a parent.  Same at the Lutheran school.  Not a peep from a parent.  Not a qualm about vaccination.

A factor that should be mentioned is that Jonas Salk was a hero to virtually the entire country.  He didn't patent the vaccine or take any profit from it.  In the 50s Midwest, he was something we would by nature not have trusted.  He was a New York City Jew.  Not on the radar, at least not in a positive way.  But our parents had us give thanks to God at the dinner table for Dr. Salk, and for his vaccine. 

Dave Benke
The fact that polio was a very different story for children than Covid probably factors into that difference. My guess is that if children were dying or being permanently crippled in droves by Covid, parents would have them lined up for the vaccine.

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