Mobbing: Organized Spiritual Abuse in the LCMS

Started by Matt Staneck, January 09, 2019, 09:05:32 AM

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D. Engebretson

I get a flu shot every year.  But now as I am getting older I noticed I'm eligible for more shots, including one for Shingles and one for pneumonia.  I have been susceptible for bronchitis, sometimes twice annually, and one year I had that on top of the H1N1 virus, and lived to tell about it.  So despite my preexisting condition of Diabetes II, I still manage to make it though most year fairly healthy, and as a pastor I'm in and out of nursing homes and hospitals.  I wonder if having had upper respiratory infections before (bronchitis, pneumonia, flu), I am at greatest risk, or have adapted better.  We'll see if and when I get COVID19....
Pastor Don Engebretson
St. Peter Lutheran Church of Polar (Antigo) WI

Dave Benke

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around folks who don't receive an annual flu shot.

This is the way it works:
1) You have a Primary care doctor, because you have health insurance
2) You have an Annual Check-up
3) Your Primary Care doctor notes what shots are needed, and gives them to you
4) If you're a senior, you get a bumped up flu shot

Get the flu shot.  Get the anti-shingles shot.

We have a parishioner from Barbados, who when asked about her long life, says it's a gift from God with this proviso - "when the doctor tells me to come, I go.  I keep my appointments."  She's about to be 97.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

Weedon

#737
1. I have no primary care doctor (he retired; I replaced him, SHE retired; haven't found another)
2. I get no annual checkups (haven't for years; check in occasionally)
3. I do not regard any doctor as a person to be obeyed but one to be consulted; I will determine what I get or don't get, but will seek input. And I weigh the input based on my own research as well.
4. I turn 60 this year, but I don't think I qualify as a senior yet.

No flu shot. No shingles shot. But I eat LOTS of meat and get my time out in the sun regularly (vitamin D!); as of almost 60, zero prescription medications, tons of energy, solid sleep. My dad was already dead by the time he was my age; I honestly never expected to live as long as I have, so I'm grateful for each day that comes along.

Terry W Culler

I've always believed that, as a pastor who visits shut-ins, nursing homes and hospitals, I should have a flu shot, not so much for myself but for the aged and the ill.  Until 2 years I didn't get a shingles shot, even though I've had shingles (btw, no fun at all).  My doctor said the shot was expensive, the insurance company wouldn't cover it and it was only half effective.  The new shot, though, seems to be much more effective and the insurance covers it.  If you've had chicken pox you should get the shingles shot.
"No particular Church has ... a right to existence, except as it believes itself the most perfect from of Christianity, the form which of right, should and will be universal."
Charles Porterfield Krauth

Dave Benke

Quote from: Pr. Terry Culler on July 22, 2020, 08:37:45 AM
I've always believed that, as a pastor who visits shut-ins, nursing homes and hospitals, I should have a flu shot, not so much for myself but for the aged and the ill.  Until 2 years I didn't get a shingles shot, even though I've had shingles (btw, no fun at all).  My doctor said the shot was expensive, the insurance company wouldn't cover it and it was only half effective.  The new shot, though, seems to be much more effective and the insurance covers it.  If you've had chicken pox you should get the shingles shot.

I used to agree with you on the basis of others, whom I might unwittingly infect.  Now when I call my shut-in parishioners, they all ask how my wife and I are doing - meaning it's also about us taking care of ourselves when it comes to vaccinations.  My wife has had more than a few bouts with shingles, and the new shot is going to be worth it, prayerfully.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

Coach-Rev

Quote from: Pr. Terry Culler on July 22, 2020, 08:37:45 AM
I've always believed that, as a pastor who visits shut-ins, nursing homes and hospitals, I should have a flu shot, not so much for myself but for the aged and the ill.  Until 2 years I didn't get a shingles shot, even though I've had shingles (btw, no fun at all).  My doctor said the shot was expensive, the insurance company wouldn't cover it and it was only half effective.  The new shot, though, seems to be much more effective and the insurance covers it.  If you've had chicken pox you should get the shingles shot.

I will not get the shingles vaccine because I'm not allowed to.  With active Rheumatoid Arthritis that I'm currently being treated for, a shingles vaccine is out of the question, because it is a "live" vaccine.
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

blog:  http://coach-rev.blogspot.com/
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Dan Fienen

#741
Quote from: Coach-Rev on July 22, 2020, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: Pr. Terry Culler on July 22, 2020, 08:37:45 AM
I've always believed that, as a pastor who visits shut-ins, nursing homes and hospitals, I should have a flu shot, not so much for myself but for the aged and the ill.  Until 2 years I didn't get a shingles shot, even though I've had shingles (btw, no fun at all).  My doctor said the shot was expensive, the insurance company wouldn't cover it and it was only half effective.  The new shot, though, seems to be much more effective and the insurance covers it.  If you've had chicken pox you should get the shingles shot.

I will not get the shingles vaccine because I'm not allowed to.  With active Rheumatoid Arthritis that I'm currently being treated for, a shingles vaccine is out of the question, because it is a "live" vaccine.

Which illustrates why one size almost always may fit most but not all. Flu vaccines, shingles vaccines, other vaccines are generally good for people and should be taken by those in the target population, but sometimes there are good reasons why it should or even must not be administered. For a number of years my wife could not take the flu vaccine because of an egg allergy. Even masks are problematic for some people with certain respiratory issues.


That said, those specific medical issues with generally recommended procedures is no excuse for people to neglect them out of laziness or personal preference. Even if I would choose not to taken the preventive measures for my own well being, considering the risk to me less than the inconvenience, we should consider the protection and benefit for our neighbors. As Christians we have a responsibility to look out for our neighbors.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Dave Benke

Quote from: Dan Fienen on July 22, 2020, 12:18:33 PM
Quote from: Coach-Rev on July 22, 2020, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: Pr. Terry Culler on July 22, 2020, 08:37:45 AM
I've always believed that, as a pastor who visits shut-ins, nursing homes and hospitals, I should have a flu shot, not so much for myself but for the aged and the ill.  Until 2 years I didn't get a shingles shot, even though I've had shingles (btw, no fun at all).  My doctor said the shot was expensive, the insurance company wouldn't cover it and it was only half effective.  The new shot, though, seems to be much more effective and the insurance covers it.  If you've had chicken pox you should get the shingles shot.

I will not get the shingles vaccine because I'm not allowed to.  With active Rheumatoid Arthritis that I'm currently being treated for, a shingles vaccine is out of the question, because it is a "live" vaccine.

Which illustrates why one size almost always may fit most but not all. Flu vaccines, shingles vaccines, other vaccines are generally good for people and should be taken by those in the target population, but sometimes there are good reasons why it should or even must not be administered. For a number of years my wife could not take the flu vaccine because of an egg allergy. Even masks are problematic for some people with certain respiratory issues.


That said, those specific medical issues with generally recommended procedures is no excuse for people to neglect them out of laziness or personal preference. Even if I would choose not to taken the preventive measures for my own well being, considering the risk to me less than the inconvenience, we should consider the protection and benefit for our neighbors. As Christians we have a responsibility to look out for our neighbors.

One of the reasons for that annual physical exam is that you find out about your various allergies.  I just had that test, which is something to watch as a couple of the little dots on your arm explode. 

Anyway, just having spoken to an EMT worker who had a bad bout of the Corona Virus this spring and is now enrolling her third child in our school, do not take this virus in the manner of Trump as a case of the sniffles.  She is just 30 and has suffered for three months in recuperation.

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

James_Gale

Quote from: Dave Benke on July 21, 2020, 07:55:15 PM
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around folks who don't receive an annual flu shot.

This is the way it works:
1) You have a Primary care doctor, because you have health insurance
2) You have an Annual Check-up
3) Your Primary Care doctor notes what shots are needed, and gives them to you
4) If you're a senior, you get a bumped up flu shot

Get the flu shot.  Get the anti-shingles shot.

We have a parishioner from Barbados, who when asked about her long life, says it's a gift from God with this proviso - "when the doctor tells me to come, I go.  I keep my appointments."  She's about to be 97.

Dave Benke


Amen.


I hope that millions of people have the courage to receive a COVID-19 vaccine once one is available.  The vaccine should protect the recipient.  But for the vaccine to do its most important job--protecting everyone (including those medically precluded from getting vaccinated)--a substantial proportion of the people must get it.

Mike Gehlhausen

Quote from: James_Gale on July 22, 2020, 01:15:49 PM
I hope that millions of people have the courage to receive a COVID-19 vaccine once one is available.  The vaccine should protect the recipient.  But for the vaccine to do its most important job--protecting everyone (including those medically precluded from getting vaccinated)--a substantial proportion of the people must get it.

I get an annual flu vaccination.

However, while I will get a COVID-19 vaccine once it has been out for a few months and been proven, I'm not going to be one of those pushing to the front.

I still remember the 1976 Swine Flu epidemic and the incidence of Guillain-Barré syndrome following some vaccinations.

This vaccine is so desperately wanted that I'm a bit wary of it until it has been field-tested throughout the world and the American general population.  If that leads some of you be judge me as lacking courage rather than simply being cautious, then so be it.

Dave Benke

Just speaking with front line workers today - they will be put at the head of the line for the vaccine.  Which I and they think is OK, except for the inevitable question - are we the guinea pigs here?  Especially, very especially, because this is being tracked in an election year at "warp speed" for use. 

So you don't want to be "Oh, poor Bill - he rushed into Group One.  They found out about that little flaw too late for him.  We'll remember him well - good old Warp Speed Bill."

The next group to move to the head of the class will be relatively healthy old people.  I'm in that group.  Not looking to be transferred to relatively healthy dead old people.

In the meantime, however long that is, wear the mask. 

Dave Benke
It's OK to Pray

Mark Brown

Quote from: Weedon on July 21, 2020, 08:04:40 PM
1. I have no primary care doctor (he retired; I replaced him, SHE retired; haven't found another)
2. I get no annual checkups (haven't for years; check in occasionally)
3. I do not regard any doctor as a person to be obeyed but one to be consulted; I will determine what I get or don't get, but will seek input. And I weigh the input based on my own research as well.
4. I turn 60 this year, but I don't think I qualify as a senior yet.

No flu shot. No shingles shot. But I eat LOTS of meat and get my time out in the sun regularly (vitamin D!); as of almost 60, zero prescription medications, tons of energy, solid sleep. My dad was already dead by the time he was my age; I honestly never expected to live as long as I have, so I'm grateful for each day that comes along.

Weedon, you must be my medical doppelganger.
1. I've never had a primary care doctor.  I'm probably close to the last group of kids that got all their shots by showing up to the yearly mass cattle call.
2. Can't say that I've ever had an annual check up other than those cattle calls that also satisfied any sports physicals.
3. Doctors as consultants is the way the system is set up.  Urgent care to get antibiotics and referrals to surgeons (I lack a gallbladder, and recently had my right arm interior bicep tendon reattached after pulling it off.)

I've never gotten the flu shot.  Although I would immediately get the COVID one when available.  Use me as the guinea pig - because I want the gym back now.  I would go now.  Because I'm sure that my health has taken a bigger hit from lack of lifting and elliptical than from the risk of COVID.  I went the the gym the day they closed them.  It was a sad day.  And now with a good wing back, I can flex the guns again. ;D

Dan Fienen

Some people eschew having a primary care physician or get flu shots (not mandatory vaccinations last time I looked). Their bodies, their choice. Isn't the individual choosing for themselves what to do with their own bodies a cardinal public virtue these days? For that matter Pres. Trump chose in consultation with his doctor to take an unproven (for Covid) medication.  His body, his choice. 
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Dan Fienen

And I think that women who get abortions, except when her life is endangered by carrying the child to term or her health is seriously endangered, is acting selfishly and immorally.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Weedon

Of course, we know Him who said that it is not the well who need a physician, but the sick... And, salt is good, have salt in yourselves... And who was criticized for not washing his hands... :)

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