Draft ELCA Social Statement on Women & Justice Released

Started by RPG, November 22, 2017, 01:52:14 PM

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mariemeyer

Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on December 02, 2017, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: mariemeyer on December 02, 2017, 11:49:59 AM
Quote from: Pr. Don Kirchner on December 02, 2017, 10:48:30 AM
Quote from: mariemeyer on December 02, 2017, 10:42:37 AM
IOW,  the question for the ELCA and the LCMS is, "How are we living out the Biblical truth that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit relate to man and woman, not according to their sexual distinction as male and female, but according to the Nature of God?"

The Biblical truth is that God relates to mankind according to His nature? Kind of a no-brainer, isn't it?

If it's a no-brainer then why does the LCMS (mis)use Scripture to prove God  the Creator established a structured order where man and woman relate to each other according the their supra or sub ordinate position in the structure??????

But this is thread is about the ELCA Social Statement.

Indeed, it is. So why ride in on your hobby horse, criticizing the LCMS about your favorite issue?

Please note that several LCMS contributors to this Forum joined the conversation on the basis of the Catechism and the Table of Duties... only then did I join the conversation.

In regard to what you refer to as my "hobby horse"..... My issue happens to be a deep concern for what the Bible teaches and for doctrine as presented in the Lutheran Confessions.

I do not know your LCMS background. Mine began with baptism in a small LCMS congregation on the northern end of Manhattan. Beginning in the third grade my parochial school teachers were LCMS trained men with a highly liturgical emphasis on worship. Daily chapel was an integral part of every day. 

My 7th and 8th grade teacher was the "master teacher" of my educational experience.  At the time Robert Schnabel was working of his doctorate at Fordham University.  In addition to the Bible, Catechism, hymnal and a CPH book on Church History we had to keep a personal note book. Prior to Friday we had to have read the Introit, Gradual, Collect and lessons for the upcoming Sunday to establish the theme of the day. In the 7th grade we also had to prepare a written summary of the Gospel and state how the text spoke to us.   The goal was that we learn to read Biblical texts as God's Word written to us personally.  The same process was followed in the 8th grade when the focus was on the Epistle for the day.

With this as the foundation for how I read Scripture and on the Confessions, I have come to conclude there is no Biblical or Confessional basis for the claim that there two orders in the church upon which the identity, purpose and relationship of man and woman are based. You may disagree, but I find your comments as directed to me not in keeping with how I understand the relationship of who we are as brother and sister in Christ.

I wish for you a blessed Advent as we again prepare to celebrate the mystery of our Lord's Incarnation.

marie meyer 


Donald_Kirchner

#256
Thank you, Ms. Meyer.

As to my LCMS background, the Kirchners were LCMS at least prior to 1874 when they left Fort Wayne, IN and moved to the St Paul, MN area. As to Lutheranism, Timotheus Kirchner signed the Formula of Concord. A Gnesio-Lutheran, it appears that he received some grief from the Philippists prior to that. (Thanks to Mr. Schenks for pointing that out.)

You see, Charles. No one is going to "drive off" Ms. Meyer. And no one would want to, given her upbringing.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Richard Johnson

The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

Richard Johnson

Quote from: Matt Hummel on December 02, 2017, 10:44:15 AM
Unfortunately for us all, retired ELCA clergy do not get to set the intelligence test for politicians.

Moore gets to run, jackass though he is. As does Schumer, Pelosi, Trump, etc. Thus it has always been in our republic. But immorality such as Moore, or Conyers, or Franken, or any of the others, R or D, exhibit, that changes it. No room for, "he may be a creep, but he's our creep."

There's a lot of talk going around about how business and entertainment fires these accused harassers while the political figures are still there. The reality is that there's no easy way to "fire" an elected official, except when there's an election. But what the congresspersons could do is make it clear to Conyers, Franken, Moore (if he's elected), etc., that they will be shunned, given crappy committee assignments, ignored, and generally treated as pariahs if they don't resign. Could and should.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS


Matt Hummel

Quote from: Richard Johnson on December 03, 2017, 03:32:04 PM
Quote from: Matt Hummel on December 02, 2017, 10:44:15 AM
Unfortunately for us all, retired ELCA clergy do not get to set the intelligence test for politicians.

Moore gets to run, jackass though he is. As does Schumer, Pelosi, Trump, etc. Thus it has always been in our republic. But immorality such as Moore, or Conyers, or Franken, or any of the others, R or D, exhibit, that changes it. No room for, "he may be a creep, but he's our creep."

There's a lot of talk going around about how business and entertainment fires these accused harassers while the political figures are still there. The reality is that there's no easy way to "fire" an elected official, except when there's an election. But what the congresspersons could do is make it clear to Conyers, Franken, Moore (if he's elected), etc., that they will be shunned, given crappy committee assignments, ignored, and generally treated as pariahs if they don't resign. Could and should.

Richard-

As we both know, the Framers built into the Constitution the means to deal with these miscreants. But that is making the assumption that those serving in DC have the intelligence to understand the document and the integrity to to follow it.

I forgot that you too are retired ELCA clergy. You would have my vote to deal with such issues.  ;)
Matt Hummel


"The chief purpose of life, for any of us, is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks."

― J.R.R. Tolkien

mariemeyer

Quote from: Richard Johnson on December 03, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: mariemeyer on December 02, 2017, 10:42:37 AM


I leave the ELCA Social Statement to members of that church body.


Gee, thanks a lot!  8)

Your welcome!  Look forward to reading comments in the Forum Letter.   ;)

Donald_Kirchner

And God promised man that good and obedient wives would be found in all the corners of the world.

Then He made the world round...and laughed and laughed and laughed.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Pasgolf

Mark (retired pastor, golfs the pastures) Renner

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