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The Pussy Pastor (sigh!)

Started by Jim Butler, July 21, 2017, 05:30:35 PM

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David Garner

Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on February 15, 2018, 11:38:45 AM
Quote from: David Garner on February 15, 2018, 08:07:58 AM
Uh, oh -- shots fired at Pastor Stoffregen!

https://twitter.com/evepeyser/status/956250202729598976?s=20


Like many other shooters, they completely misunderstand the MBTI. It is clear when they call it a "test".

I assumed so. I just couldn't resist the jab.
Orthodox Reader and former Lutheran (LCMS and WELS).

Dan Fienen


Every church body, nearly every organization, has its fringe elements that not only push the envelope but tear it.  Generally they are not representative of the thinking of the church body as a whole.  What does matter is how the organization deals with such individuals.


I doubt that Ms Johnson is representative of the ELCA or her seminaries.
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Charles Austin

I was asked far upstream if I considered her fit for ELCA ministry.
I said then that based on her comments and if the things printed about her were true, I did not consider her fit for ELCA ministry. At least not without considerable investigation and re-orientation of her views.
My opinion has not changed.
ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. Former journalist. Former news director and spokesman for the LCA. Former LWF staff in Geneva, Switzerland.  Parishes in Iowa. New Jersey and New York.  Retired in Minneapolis.

dkeener

Quote from: Charles Austin on February 15, 2018, 03:55:36 PM
I was asked far upstream if I considered her fit for ELCA ministry.
I said then that based on her comments and if the things printed about her were true, I did not consider her fit for ELCA ministry. At least not without considerable investigation and re-orientation of her views.
My opinion has not changed.

So here is my question Charles.  What are you or other ELCA pastors doing about it? If you truly believe she is unfit for ministry in your denomination aren't you obligated to speak up?  Saying, "Well she is not in my synod so not my problem or responsibility." doesn't really work.  The Vision and Expectations for Ordained clergy document of the ELCA states:

"Pastoral identity carries with it expectations and accountabilities that are determined by the whole church and not simply by a given congregation, synod, institution, or agency served by the ordained minister."

"The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has high expectations for those who serve within the ordained ministry of this church. It does so because it recognizes that when offense is given by an ordained minister, the witness of the gospel may be impaired and the ability to carry out public ministry is threatened."

'This church expects its ordained ministers to work in a collegial relationship with one another and to share in mutual accountability with those in positions of leadership and oversight in this church."


Also, the "If the things printed about her are true" argument" does not hold much water. The evidence is there for those who wish to see. The words are hers either written by her in her Twitter and Instagram accounts or quotes from her interview in the article in "Elle" magazine.  Again your own Vision and Expectations documents states,

"The ordained minister is to be an example of holy living so that the ordained minister's life does not become an impediment to the hearing of the gospel or a scandal to the community of faith."

It is pretty clear that Miss Johnson likes the limelight and tries very hard to be provocative in order to stay center stage.  Apart from the sexuality stuff this alone should have been warning that she was not a good candidate for ordained ministry.

You criticize those of us outside the ELCA when we are critical of the ELCA but we speak out of frustration. Since the "L" in ELCA stands for Lutheran and since the ELCA loves to remind people that they are the largest "Lutheran" denomination in the USA, what you do reflects on the rest of us. We are helpless to change the direction of the ELCA but you are not. You are a respected voice in your denomination, you have an obligation as a roster pastor to hold other ELCA clergy (and potential clergy) accountable for their actions and, as a writer and reporter, you have the skills necessary to find out how and why such a person made it through the candidacy system.

One of the major reasons I left the ELCA was just this kind of lack of accountability and refusal by the denomination to hold it's clergy to the standards of its official documents. Every denomination has its fringe elements and many people pursue ordination for the wrong reasons.  It is the responsibility of denominational heads and professional leaders to see that these people are weeded out before they become an embarrassment to the Church and an impairment to the proclamation of the gospel.

Vision and Expectations, Ordained Ministers in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
http://download.elca.org/ELCA%20Resource%20Repository/Vision_and_Expectations_for_Ordained_Ministers.pdf

Charles Austin

Three things, Pastor Keener, in response to your last posting.
First, based on what I was reading, I do not expect this person to get through the final process of approval for ordination.
Second, I believe we do need some "standing" in order to get involved in tasks which, in a certain way, belong to a particular synod. If this person or a candidate in my Synod, I know I would have had some words with the bishop and the candidacy committee.
And third, related to numbers one and two, you have to pick your battles.  I pick fewer today that I might have done some years ago.
Finally, because when one looks at these things, one needs to look very very deeply into what is being said and done, there would have to be quite a lot of investigation into what was actually said, in what context, and whether that person might modify their language and positions as a pastor in the ELCA.
Also, I have noticed that sometimes life provides its own corrective. I once encountered a newly ordained pastor and my immediate question was "how did this person get ordained?" In about 18 months, that Pastor crashed and burned, went on leave from call, was never given another call and was dropped from the clergy roster. I think the candidacy committee learned a lesson in that situation.
ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. Former journalist. Former news director and spokesman for the LCA. Former LWF staff in Geneva, Switzerland.  Parishes in Iowa. New Jersey and New York.  Retired in Minneapolis.

dkeener

Quote from: Charles Austin on February 21, 2018, 03:15:36 PM
Three things, Pastor Keener, in response to your last posting.
First, based on what I was reading, I do not expect this person to get through the final process of approval for ordination.
Second, I believe we do need some "standing" in order to get involved in tasks which, in a certain way, belong to a particular synod. If this person or a candidate in my Synod, I know I would have had some words with the bishop and the candidacy committee.
And third, related to numbers one and two, you have to pick your battles.  I pick fewer today that I might have done some years ago.
Finally, because when one looks at these things, one needs to look very very deeply into what is being said and done, there would have to be quite a lot of investigation into what was actually said, in what context, and whether that person might modify their language and positions as a pastor in the ELCA.
Also, I have noticed that sometimes life provides its own corrective. I once encountered a newly ordained pastor and my immediate question was "how did this person get ordained?" In about 18 months, that Pastor crashed and burned, went on leave from call, was never given another call and was dropped from the clergy roster. I think the candidacy committee learned a lesson in that situation.

Thanks for your thoughtful response Charles.  I hope you are right but my guess is that if she made it this far she will most likely get approval for ordination.  If that happens I don't think the candidacy committee will be doing her or the church a favor.

Newt Kerney

I am in the congregation in which she was assigned as an Intern.  She requested to resign her Internship on Feb 6. That request was granted on that day.   She has said publicly that she will not seek ordination in the ELCA. 

dkeener


Newt Kerney


Donald_Kirchner

#624
Quote from: Newt Kerney on February 21, 2018, 06:42:15 PM
I am in the congregation in which she was assigned as an Intern.  She requested to resign her Internship on Feb 6. That request was granted on that day.   She has said publicly that she will not seek ordination in the ELCA.

Given Ms. Johnson's Twitter post on that same day (see above), we can only hope that someone in that section of the ELCA came to their senses, and she was given the option to publicly resign, er..."She requested to resign," which "request was granted." I've often wondered how either party does that, since "resign" is a voluntary action.
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Charles Austin

 My suspicion is that she was told she would not qualify for ordination, at least not until there were some significant changes in certain things.
ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. Former journalist. Former news director and spokesman for the LCA. Former LWF staff in Geneva, Switzerland.  Parishes in Iowa. New Jersey and New York.  Retired in Minneapolis.

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