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The holiday that hurts

Started by LutherMan, November 09, 2015, 05:08:17 PM

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LutherMan

My father was at Pearl Harbor during the war, and my four eldest brothers also served in the Navy during the sixties...

Daniel L. Gard

Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 06:14:00 PM
My father was at Pearl Harbor during the war, and my four eldest brothers also served in the Navy during the sixties...

Your family has given a great gift to the rest of us. I finally got to visit Pearl Harbor this year and felt unworthy to follow in the steps of those heroes.

Daniel L. Gard

Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: John_Hannah on November 10, 2015, 03:29:22 PM
Right, Craig. Notice that he is described as a civilian chaplain.

Peace, JOHN
Whatever that means...

WELS does not send chaplains into the military. They can still provide ministry to WELS personnel through their civilian pastors but, other than that, they are very limited.

Military chaplains wear the uniform and go forward with the people they serve. Even as I freely write this on the internet, military chaplains are out there around the world caring for our service members and their families. If their people go into harms way, the unarmed chaplain goes with them. Military chaplains are the only clergy who have that privilege and blessing.

LutherMan

To the chaplains here:  Have you ever had a WELSian place you in charge of his spiritual care?

Daniel L. Gard

Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 08:07:09 PM
To the chaplains here:  Have you ever had a WELSian place you in charge of his spiritual care?

Yes. I have reminded them of the position of their own Synod and that I am LCMS and bound to my own commitments to faithfully represent my Synod.

Daniel L. Gard

Quote from: Charles Austin on November 10, 2015, 04:50:12 PM
They also serve who choose not to fight. But we have no day to honor their commitment and sacrifice.

I respect their commitment to their principles. But the sacrifice has been made by those who defend America and risk their lives so that others may be free to follow their commitments.  When someone has to notify a widow that her husband has died as a result of his decision not to fight, like I have done too many times for Marines and Sailors who have died in the service of their country, then I might agree that they need a day to honor them.




LutherMan

Quote from: Daniel L. Gard on November 10, 2015, 08:29:20 PM
Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 08:07:09 PM
To the chaplains here:  Have you ever had a WELSian place you in charge of his spiritual care?

Yes. I have reminded them of the position of their own Synod and that I am LCMS and bound to my own commitments to faithfully represent my Synod.

Thank God.  I have always wondered if WELSians seek out faithful LCMS chaplains.  Do you commune them?

Daniel L. Gard

Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 08:50:44 PM
Quote from: Daniel L. Gard on November 10, 2015, 08:29:20 PM
Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 08:07:09 PM
To the chaplains here:  Have you ever had a WELSian place you in charge of his spiritual care?

Yes. I have reminded them of the position of their own Synod and that I am LCMS and bound to my own commitments to faithfully represent my Synod.

Thank God.  I have always wondered if WELSians seek out faithful LCMS chaplains.  Do you commune them?

I commune those with whom I am in fellowship - just like any LCMS pastor. Yet there are cases of responsible individual pastoral care and, while I cannot go into detail, a Marine about to offload from the ship and go into combat will hunger and thirst for the Sacrament. So might a young warrior stuck with me at Guantanamo for 9 months without a break and who faces daily threats from the detainees he or she must guard. So, yes - while it is rare, it has happened.

LutherMan

Quote from: Daniel L. Gard on November 10, 2015, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 08:50:44 PM
Quote from: Daniel L. Gard on November 10, 2015, 08:29:20 PM
Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 08:07:09 PM
To the chaplains here:  Have you ever had a WELSian place you in charge of his spiritual care?

Yes. I have reminded them of the position of their own Synod and that I am LCMS and bound to my own commitments to faithfully represent my Synod.

Thank God.  I have always wondered if WELSians seek out faithful LCMS chaplains.  Do you commune them?

I commune those with whom I am in fellowship - just like any LCMS pastor. Yet there are cases of responsible individual pastoral care and, while I cannot go into detail, a Marine about to offload from the ship and go into combat will hunger and thirst for the Sacrament. So might a young warrior stuck with me at Guantanamo for 9 months without a break and who faces daily threats from the detainees he or she must guard. So, yes - while it is rare, it has happened.

Thank you and God Bless you Dr. Gard.  You are a saint along with being chief of sinners...

Steven W Bohler

Quote from: Daniel L. Gard on November 10, 2015, 08:03:31 PM
Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: John_Hannah on November 10, 2015, 03:29:22 PM
Right, Craig. Notice that he is described as a civilian chaplain.

Peace, JOHN
Whatever that means...

WELS does not send chaplains into the military. They can still provide ministry to WELS personnel through their civilian pastors but, other than that, they are very limited.

Military chaplains wear the uniform and go forward with the people they serve. Even as I freely write this on the internet, military chaplains are out there around the world caring for our service members and their families. If their people go into harms way, the unarmed chaplain goes with them. Military chaplains are the only clergy who have that privilege and blessing.

Just curious: Are chaplains forbidden to be armed in such settings?

Daniel L. Gard

Quote from: Steven W Bohler on November 10, 2015, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: Daniel L. Gard on November 10, 2015, 08:03:31 PM
Quote from: LutherMan on November 10, 2015, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: John_Hannah on November 10, 2015, 03:29:22 PM
Right, Craig. Notice that he is described as a civilian chaplain.

Peace, JOHN
Whatever that means...

WELS does not send chaplains into the military. They can still provide ministry to WELS personnel through their civilian pastors but, other than that, they are very limited.

Military chaplains wear the uniform and go forward with the people they serve. Even as I freely write this on the internet, military chaplains are out there around the world caring for our service members and their families. If their people go into harms way, the unarmed chaplain goes with them. Military chaplains are the only clergy who have that privilege and blessing.

Just curious: Are chaplains forbidden to be armed in such settings?

We are non-combatants according to the Geneva Convention. So we do not carry a weapon. We are assigned an armed enlisted person charged with protecting the chaplain.

J.L. Precup

Chaplains are non-combatants...so they are never armed.

As for communing other Lutherans, yes...that is how the LCMS chaplain guidelines are written (or at least they were).  Usually, WELS Lutherans would tell me what they could not do.  I would simply invite them to do as much during worship as they could.  After a few weeks without saying anything more, more than a few would commune.

Charles Austin

No, I'm not going to suggest a holiday to honor those who serve by refusing military service. Nor do I expect many to understand what kinds of "sacrifices" they make. May appropriate blessings and honors go to those who put on uniforms and pick up weapons in service of our country. But they are not the only ones who serve us. Nor are they the only ones who sacrifice.
ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. And look at this. Here's the old 1960s protestor and critic of our government as virtually the only "love this country" patriot in this forum.

Dan Fienen

Quote from: Charles Austin on November 10, 2015, 10:50:49 PM
No, I'm not going to suggest a holiday to honor those who serve by refusing military service. Nor do I expect many to understand what kinds of "sacrifices" they make. May appropriate blessings and honors go to those who put on uniforms and pick up weapons in service of our country. But they are not the only ones who serve us. Nor are they the only ones who sacrifice.
Could you suggest a prayer that would be appropriate to include with the prayers for veterans and those still in the military?
Pr. Daniel Fienen
LCMS

Richard Johnson

I would think a prayer for "service men and women, veterans, and all who work for peace" might do the trick.
The Rev. Richard O. Johnson, STS

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