Here's a Way to Control Guns

Started by Dave Benke, July 18, 2015, 09:40:21 AM

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Robert Johnson

Quote from: John_Hannah on March 27, 2023, 08:29:13 PM
Got no weapon to give.  I do contribute funds for humanitarian relief in Ukraine.

Virtue signal noted.

Steven W Bohler

Quote from: John_Hannah on March 27, 2023, 08:01:52 PM
Just as I would have predicted. It's only almost a M-16. The Ukrainian soldiers without a weapon would love to have one.

Peace, JOHN

And if that Ukrainian soldier was truly without a weapon, I would imagine he would love to have a flintlock rifle.  Or a knife.  Or even a pointed stick.  I suppose you will want to ban those next.

Steven W Bohler

Quote from: John_Hannah on March 27, 2023, 06:59:43 PM
There is no good purpose for military grade weapons outside the armed forces. The AR-15; for example, is almost an M-16. The minor technical differences do not baptize it as a benign sporting gun. It is not. Don't bother posting that list of technicalities. The AR-15 can destroy a lot of people in just a few seconds. Send your list to the parents in Nashville and Uvalde.

Those weapons already out there could well be donated to the Ukrainian army. I understand that some soldiers are waiting for their weapon to be issued as there is a shortage. Put them to good use, get them out of American circulation, and help defeat Putin. We survived the ten years assault weapons were illegal. We can do it again.

Peace, JOHN

My recollection is that, in past posts on similar matters, you have told us that you have very little knowledge on such matters, despite your service as a military chaplain.  So I would suggest that you either a) learn a little more before you speak, or b) not speak on a subject which you obviously know so little. 

Charles Austin

#153
I don't care whether those weapons that are out there killing our children are actual equals of military weaponry or not. I, and a lot of very sensible people, just want them gone.
It is a ridiculous diversion and dodging the issue to contend that they're not "really" like military weapons. Seems to me they're close enough.
And once more I ask: who wants to own these things and why? And why should we let them?
ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. And look at this. Here's the old 1960s protestor and critic of our government as virtually the only "love this country" patriot in this forum.

Robert Johnson

Quote from: Charles Austin on March 28, 2023, 12:04:30 AM
I don't care whether those weapons that are out there killing our children are actual equals of military weaponry or not. I, and a lot of very sensible people, just want them gone.
It is a ridiculous diversion and dodging the issue to contend that they're not "really" like military weapons. Seems to me they're close enough.
And once more I ask: who wants to own these things and why? And why should we let them?

We don't need gun control. We need insane people control.

Charles Austin

Gun control is easier than "insane" people control. And dozens of shooters do not make the "insane" spectrum.
I have said this before. I do not oppose hunting. I do not oppose firing range shooting. My relatives hunt. I don't understand firing range shooting of combat weapons but... I think much rhetoric about guns for self-defense is romantic wish-thinking, but...
Why is it so easy for so many people to obtain - without difficulty - the weapons we are discussing. And I don't care whether they really meet military specs or are better or worse than people in uniform use. Why do civilians want or need these types of weapons? Why can we not make sale or ownership of some types of guns illegal?
Folks here say we have laws on these things. They obviously aren't working. Make them tougher. Make the penalties stiffer.
And fund - massively fund - anti-violence programs, mental health programs, give-up-your guns programs. Go after the manufacturers of guns for funding. Go after parents and others who put guns in the hands of children.
At least we who preach and teach the faith should have a clear plan on teaching non-violence, the morality of "self-defense" the morality of our attitudes towards protecting our lives and properties. Our actions in civil society should support plans aimed at reducing gun violence.
And we should make known our concern for the violence fostered by "heroes" of television and movie franchises.
Would alll or any of these things stop all mass killings? Probably not, but - in the name of Aunt Gertie's goat - they might stop some. Maybe some six-year old, some school teacher, some cop, some mall shopper might get to live longer.
Second Amendment arguments get us nowhere.
ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. And look at this. Here's the old 1960s protestor and critic of our government as virtually the only "love this country" patriot in this forum.

RF

If only the "control others to bow the knee to my worldview" crusaders were as enthusiastic about improving all areas of safety as they are about eliminating scary looking pieces of steel and plastic. 

Fentanyl deaths/day - about 150
https://www.cdc.gov/stopoverdose/fentanyl/index.html

Gun homicides and suicides deaths/day - about 130
https://www.thetrace.org/2022/12/gun-violence-deaths-statistics-america/

Violent crimes/day - about 3288

Concealed-carry homicides/day - about 0.15

According to the data, America's 18 million concealed-carry permit holders accounted for 801 firearm-related homicides over a 15-year span, which amounts to roughly 0.7% of all firearm-related homicides during that time.


John_Hannah

#157
The AR-15 can readily be made to operate as a full automatic (with a bump stock).  For example, Las Vegas shooter. Even as a semi-automatic it can slaughter several victims in seconds. For what good purpose outside of military and law enforcement?

Peace, JOHN
Pr. JOHN HANNAH, STS

Donald_Kirchner

Quote from: John_Hannah on March 28, 2023, 06:46:20 AM
The AR-15 can readily be made to operate as a full automatic (with a bump stock).  For example, Las Vegas shooter. Even as a semi-automatic it can slaughter several victims in seconds. For what good purpose outside of military and law enforcement?

https://alpb.org/Forum/index.php?topic=6026.msg531605#msg531605
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Steven W Bohler

Quote from: John_Hannah on March 28, 2023, 06:46:20 AM
The AR-15 can readily be made to operate as a full automatic (with a bump stock). Even as a semi-automatic it can slaughter several victims in seconds. For example, Las Vegas shooter.

Peace, JOHN

1. No, this is another of your mistaken ideas about guns.  Bump stocks do NOT transform a semi-automatic into an automatic weapon.  Each trigger pull still only fires one round.
2. Bump stocks are no longer available, thanks to President Trump.  And the NRA. 
3. The late Bob Munden, using a Colt Single Action Army (the old cowboy six-gun, patented in 1873) shot 5 balloons in 1.06 seconds in 1966.  Maybe you want to ban those guns too, as they could "slaughter several victims in seconds" as well.

Donald_Kirchner

Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Donald_Kirchner

Quote from: Steven W Bohler on March 28, 2023, 08:25:04 AM
Quote from: John_Hannah on March 28, 2023, 06:46:20 AM
Even as a semi-automatic it can slaughter several victims in seconds. For example, Las Vegas shooter.

3. The late Bob Munden, using a Colt Single Action Army (the old cowboy six-gun, patented in 1873) shot 5 balloons in 1.06 seconds in 1966.  Maybe you want to ban those guns too, as they could "slaughter several victims in seconds" as well.

Given these over-reactions,  given the Nashville school shooting, perhaps we should outlaw transgenderism too?  ::)
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Charles Austin

#162
I continue to marvel at the ways in which old arguments, a romanticism of guns, and a fanaticism about owning them manages let people manage to avoid any serious discussion about what to do concerning gun violence. Your first concern is always  the guns and their owners, and the second amendment, which, by the way, is not in the Bible. Shouldn't the first concern be the victims of gun violence? Now there's something which is in the Bible.
ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. And look at this. Here's the old 1960s protestor and critic of our government as virtually the only "love this country" patriot in this forum.

Donald_Kirchner

#163
Quote from: Charles Austin on March 28, 2023, 09:58:36 AM
I continue to marvel at the ways in which old arguments, a romanticism of guns, and a fanaticism about owning them manages let people manage to avoid any serious discussion about what to do concerning gun violence. Your first concern is always  the guns and their owners, and the second amendment, which, by the way, is not in the Bible. Shouldn't the first concern be the victims of gun violence? Now there's something which is in the Bible.

Tell me, Charles... When did the US become a theocracy? Are you advocating for that?

Yes, the 2nd Amendment is an "old argument." it's been around for about 250 years.  ::)
Don Kirchner

"Heaven's OK, but it's not the end of the world." Jeff Gibbs

Charles Austin

#164
We have had other amendments to the constitution. Some were new. And some were later repealed. The constitution is not holy scripture, it can be and has been changed.
And what do you suggest we do to reduce gun violence?
ELCA PASTOR. Iowa born and raised. And look at this. Here's the old 1960s protestor and critic of our government as virtually the only "love this country" patriot in this forum.

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