Couldn't help but be amused

Started by Pilgrim, December 12, 2012, 12:23:42 PM

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Pilgrim

Tim writes: As I've been working ahead, I noticed this was the second petition offered for the prayers for Christ-mass Eve from Sundays and Seasons (I've not used their prayers for years now). I couldn't help but chuckle and share this one, especially in light of the fact that we will be celebrating the Incarnation - God becoming flesh - which is finally beyond the capability of human language to either fully comprehend or express, we are then invited to pray:

Let us pray for the dark places of the world — for the Arctic Circle, the deep seas, the underground caverns, and all the wild creatures that call these places home. Lord, in your mercy,
hear our prayer.


Really???
Pr. Tim Christ, STS

Marshall_Hahn

They forgot the mounds of manure where dwell the worms.

Marshall Hahn

Jeremy Loesch

A Lutheran pastor growing into all sorts of things.

Felix Culpepper

There is a Service for Christmas Day in S&S.  Overall I like it, especially the way it uses From Heaven Above in between the readings.  However, the prayer of the day seems a little odd.  It says:

Incarnate God, on this Christmas day we give you thanks for sending your Son to bring light to our darkness.

That is awkward.  Who is the Incarnate God who sent his Son?  I thought that the Son was God Incarnate, but then in that case, it would be the Son sending himself.  In more traditional forms of prayer, the Father would be thanked for sending his Son.  Was this a poor attempt to avoid masculine language?  Or am I missing something?

Mike Gehlhausen

Quote from: Felix Culpepper on December 12, 2012, 01:39:32 PM
There is a Service for Christmas Day in S&S.  Overall I like it, especially the way it uses From Heaven Above in between the readings. 

Thanks for the positive review.  I was beginning to wonder why anyone would use such garbage.

Mike

peter_speckhard

Quote from: Felix Culpepper on December 12, 2012, 01:39:32 PM
There is a Service for Christmas Day in S&S.  Overall I like it, especially the way it uses From Heaven Above in between the readings.  However, the prayer of the day seems a little odd.  It says:

Incarnate God, on this Christmas day we give you thanks for sending your Son to bring light to our darkness.

That is awkward.  Who is the Incarnate God who sent his Son?  I thought that the Son was God Incarnate, but then in that case, it would be the Son sending himself.  In more traditional forms of prayer, the Father would be thanked for sending his Son.  Was this a poor attempt to avoid masculine language?  Or am I missing something?
This seems to be the trendy way of praying-- always put a modifier (but not Almighty) in front of the word "God" (not Father or Lord; e.g. Generous God, Nurturing God, etc.) to begin the petition. This will make the prayer sound just theologically interesting and seemingly profound yet flowery enough for people to be impressed while giving the leader the chance to avoid patriarchy, militarism, or other such unenlightened concepts. In this case, probably "Incarnate" seemed like a very Christmassy modifier for God, and why let a mere mangling of the Trinity get in the way of that?   

Charles_Austin

I sometimes find the language in "Sundays and Season" awkward, pedestrian or a half-step out of tune. And sometimes the petitions either don't fit a particular situation or seem to lift up things that might better (at that particular time) be left alone. But it is easy to fix.
It's far from "garbage," Mr. Gehlhausen. But if to you it smells like Tuesday's salad on Friday night, you don't have to use any of it.

Mike Gehlhausen

Quote from: Charles_Austin on December 12, 2012, 04:05:51 PM
It's far from "garbage," Mr. Gehlhausen. But if to you it smells like Tuesday's salad on Friday night, you don't have to use any of it.

Thanks for that.

Being LCMS, our congregation often makes benefit of the LCMS Commission on Worship's LetUsPray.

And its prayers are sometimes awkward and out of place.  But I've yet to come across anything as inane as the petition which started this thread.

Mike

Charles_Austin

Maybe you're not an outdoors type of person, Mr. Gehlhausen, but some of us think that there is nothing "inane" about praying for the health of the earth and its wild creatures. Scripture says of the "deep," "the sea is his and he made it," so praying for what God made seems to be in order.


Felix Culpepper

Quote from: peter_speckhard on December 12, 2012, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: Felix Culpepper on December 12, 2012, 01:39:32 PM
There is a Service for Christmas Day in S&S.  Overall I like it, especially the way it uses From Heaven Above in between the readings.  However, the prayer of the day seems a little odd.  It says:

Incarnate God, on this Christmas day we give you thanks for sending your Son to bring light to our darkness.

That is awkward.  Who is the Incarnate God who sent his Son?  I thought that the Son was God Incarnate, but then in that case, it would be the Son sending himself.  In more traditional forms of prayer, the Father would be thanked for sending his Son.  Was this a poor attempt to avoid masculine language?  Or am I missing something?
This seems to be the trendy way of praying-- always put a modifier (but not Almighty) in front of the word "God" (not Father or Lord; e.g. Generous God, Nurturing God, etc.) to begin the petition. This will make the prayer sound just theologically interesting and seemingly profound yet flowery enough for people to be impressed while giving the leader the chance to avoid patriarchy, militarism, or other such unenlightened concepts. In this case, probably "Incarnate" seemed like a very Christmassy modifier for God, and why let a mere mangling of the Trinity get in the way of that?

I thought the same thing.  Exactly.

Mike Gehlhausen

Quote from: Charles_Austin on December 12, 2012, 04:35:39 PM
Maybe you're not an outdoors type of person, Mr. Gehlhausen, but some of us think that there is nothing "inane" about praying for the health of the earth and its wild creatures. Scripture says of the "deep," "the sea is his and he made it," so praying for what God made seems to be in order.

Whatever floats your boat.

Along with Pr. Christ, I couldn't help but be amused by the stretch of "dark places" to which the petition went.

Mike

pastorg1@aol.com

Quote from: peter_speckhard on December 12, 2012, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: Felix Culpepper on December 12, 2012, 01:39:32 PM
There is a Service for Christmas Day in S&S.  Overall I like it, especially the way it uses From Heaven Above in between the readings.  However, the prayer of the day seems a little odd.  It says:

Incarnate God, on this Christmas day we give you thanks for sending your Son to bring light to our darkness.

That is awkward.  Who is the Incarnate God who sent his Son?  I thought that the Son was God Incarnate, but then in that case, it would be the Son sending himself.  In more traditional forms of prayer, the Father would be thanked for sending his Son.  Was this a poor attempt to avoid masculine language?  Or am I missing something?
This seems to be the trendy way of praying-- always put a modifier (but not Almighty) in front of the word "God" (not Father or Lord; e.g. Generous God, Nurturing God, etc.) to begin the petition. This will make the prayer sound just theologically interesting and seemingly profound yet flowery enough for people to be impressed while giving the leader the chance to avoid patriarchy, militarism, or other such unenlightened concepts. In this case, probably "Incarnate" seemed like a very Christmassy modifier for God, and why let a mere mangling of the Trinity get in the way of that?

Writing like this scares me because it shows no theological oversight of what is in a church publication. Such doctrinal laziness continues a trend that might be stated, "As long as we're trying to be nice, we can do no wrong."

In seminary, I remember reading about someone saying that seminarians can be as serious about making mistakes as people in nursing school. Lives are at risk; souls are at risk. And a "mangling of the Trinity," is no small mistake.

Peter (Everyone needs an editor) Garrison
Pete Garrison
RC Catechist

LutherMan

How many of you pastors just skip the Sundays and Seasons and LetUsPray stuff and write your own prayers?

J. Thomas Shelley

Quote from: Pilgrim on December 12, 2012, 12:23:42 PM
Let us pray for the dark places of the world — for the Arctic Circle, the deep seas, the underground caverns, and all the wild creatures that call these places home. Lord, in your mercy,
hear our prayer.


Really???

ONLY the Arctic Circle--which is benighted only half the year?

How Eurocentric!   Isn't the Antarctic Circle and myriad of penguins also worthy of our prayes?
Greek Orthodox Deacon - Ecumenical Patriarchate
Ordained to the Holy Diaconate Mary of Egypt Sunday A.D. 2022

Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained United Methodist.
Served as a Lutheran Pastor October 31, 1989 - October 31, 2014.
Charter member of the first chapter of the Society of the Holy Trinity.

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: peter_speckhard on December 12, 2012, 03:03:08 PM
This seems to be the trendy way of praying-- always put a modifier (but not Almighty) in front of the word "God" (not Father or Lord; e.g. Generous God, Nurturing God, etc.) to begin the petition. This will make the prayer sound just theologically interesting and seemingly profound yet flowery enough for people to be impressed while giving the leader the chance to avoid patriarchy, militarism, or other such unenlightened concepts. In this case, probably "Incarnate" seemed like a very Christmassy modifier for God, and why let a mere mangling of the Trinity get in the way of that?


And yet, the three Prayers of the Day for Christmas in ELW begin:


1. Almighty God,...
2. All-powerful and unseen God,...
3. Almighty God, ...


The petitions in S&S are meant to be examples. No one has to use them as they are printed. (One of the detriments to using pre-printed inserts.) In addition, the example given is not a petition. It is not directed to God, but to the assembly: "Let us pray ...." Properly, after asking "us" to pray, there should be a brief silence before the concluding, "Lord, in your mercy, R/ hear our prayer."


I use S&S every week (the print edition, not electronic). I type out the petitions (or requests for prayer) and modify them as I think they need, add one or two that are more specific to our needs, the theme for the day, or issues in the news.
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

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