Wednesday afternoon: destructive storms

Started by Richard Johnson, August 19, 2009, 05:41:51 PM

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Just_Here_For_CWA


SCPO

Quote from: ThePhantom on August 19, 2009, 11:03:51 PM

A Steeple being blown off ... a wonderfully powerful image for the week especially given Central's dedication to supplanting God's plan for marriage and family.  Maybe tomorrow I'll put our graphic artist to work coming up with something for Sunday's meeting.


      I am beginning to think that "The Phantom" might be a follower of the late Gene Scott.

Timotheos

Quote from: jpetty on August 20, 2009, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: Just_Here_For_CWA on August 20, 2009, 09:07:23 AM
You might read the Piper essay. He said it was a "firm but gentle sign to the ELCA and all of us."

Only if you're Pat Robertson, or have a pre-enlightenment point of view.

Yeah, this is a little too Old Testament.  After all, they're two different gods, right?

Pr. Timothy Winterstein

jpetty

Quote from: Timotheos on August 20, 2009, 11:24:35 AM
Quote from: jpetty on August 20, 2009, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: Just_Here_For_CWA on August 20, 2009, 09:07:23 AM
You might read the Piper essay. He said it was a "firm but gentle sign to the ELCA and all of us."

Only if you're Pat Robertson, or have a pre-enlightenment point of view.

Yeah, this is a little too Old Testament.  After all, they're two different gods, right?

Pr. Timothy Winterstein


God is only mildly ticked at Central Lutheran.  He must have been really mad at the people who lived in the neighborhood.

Iowegian

Quote from: Timotheos on August 20, 2009, 11:24:35 AM

Yeah, this is a little too Old Testament.  After all, they're two different gods, right?


I think I just heard "The Gospel According to Lilo and Stitch" and what we can learn from a Disney movie, so it's all on the table.

Charles_Austin

So, Eric, what should we be doing here? We sing, we pray, the voting members legislate, the bishops bish and we volunteers do our work. There are terrific videos about work going on in various congregations around the country.
But, I suppose in your view, that's fiddling.

George Erdner

Quote from: Charles_Austin on August 20, 2009, 12:30:53 PM
So, Eric, what should we be doing here? We sing, we pray, the voting members legislate, the bishops bish and we volunteers do our work. There are terrific videos about work going on in various congregations around the country.
But, I suppose in your view, that's fiddling.


When you do those things in the absence of a clear shared understanding of God's Word, what you have isn't a church. What you've described could just as easily be the Kiwanis or the Masons.

Charles_Austin

Mr. Erdner writes (re praying and singing):
When you do those things in the absence of a clear shared understanding of God's Word, what you have isn't a church. What you've described could just as easily be the Kiwanis or the Masons.
I muse:
Ah, but we do have a clear, shared understanding of God's word - on the essentials - if not on everything on your particular list of what constitutes "church," a list which, I am sure, bears no resemblance to what "Church" actually is.

DCharlton

Quote from: Charles_Austin on August 20, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
Mr. Erdner writes (re praying and singing):
When you do those things in the absence of a clear shared understanding of God's Word, what you have isn't a church. What you've described could just as easily be the Kiwanis or the Masons.
I muse:
Ah, but we do have a clear, shared understanding of God's word - on the essentials - if not on everything on your particular list of what constitutes "church," a list which, I am sure, bears no resemblance to what "Church" actually is.

Perhaps you're right Charles.  What would you say those essentials are?
David Charlton  

Was Algul Siento a divinity school?

Timotheos

Quote from: Charles_Austin on August 20, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
Mr. Erdner writes (re praying and singing):
When you do those things in the absence of a clear shared understanding of God's Word, what you have isn't a church. What you've described could just as easily be the Kiwanis or the Masons.
I muse:
Ah, but we do have a clear, shared understanding of God's word - on the essentials - if not on everything on your particular list of what constitutes "church," a list which, I am sure, bears no resemblance to what "Church" actually is.

Do you really think that it is possible to hold on to some lowest-common-denominator "list of essentials" and do whatever you want with the rest of it?  Can God's Word be separated into "essential" and "non-essential"?  If so, are you the one to do it?  Who gets to decide what, within that fallible human book called the Bible, is God's Word and what is not?  Whatever it is, that's certainly not submission to the Word of God.  I wonder what, exactly, the consciences of Assembly members are "bound" to?  Their experiences, feelings, and stories? 

It seems to me that it's much more like theological Jenga: you can remove a piece or two, even a few pieces, but eventually the whole thing will fall under its own weight.

Pr. Timothy Winterstein

Pr. Jerry Kliner

Quote from: Timotheos on August 20, 2009, 01:46:32 PM
It seems to me that it's much more like theological Jenga: you can remove a piece or two, even a few pieces, but eventually the whole thing will fall under its own weight.

Pr. Timothy Winterstein

:D :D :D

Theological Jenga!

Now that's a line for the ages!

Pr. Jerry Kliner, STS

DCharlton

#56
Timothy,

The truth is that there in not even agreement on the "essentials."  Go over to the discussion of the Goodsoil confession and you'll see that we don't even agree on the Doctrine of the Trinity.  Modalism, Subordinationism, Synergism are all there.  The first four articles of the Augsburg Confession are up for grabs.

David
David Charlton  

Was Algul Siento a divinity school?

Timotheos

Quote from: DCharlton on August 20, 2009, 01:50:30 PM
Timothy,

The truth is that there in not even agreement on the "essentials."  Go over to the discussion of the Goodsoil confession and you'll see that we don't even agree on the Doctrine of the Trinity.  Modalism, Subordinationism, Synergism are all there.  The first four articles of the Augsburg Confession are up for grabs.

David

Yes, I saw it.  And I agree.  I'm not sure that there is anything such thing as some simplified "essentials."  As if we could just say, "Well, we all believe in Jesus, right?"  Which Jesus?  What belief?  The Faith is of a single piece.  But the ELCA is currently pulling one more thread out of the whole cloth and seeing if it will hold together.  Unfortunately it's all connected, and it will all come undone.  (And I sincerely mean that "unfortunately.")

Pr. Timothy Winterstein

Brian Stoffregen

Quote from: Pr. Jerry Kliner on August 20, 2009, 01:49:08 PM
Quote from: Timotheos on August 20, 2009, 01:46:32 PM
It seems to me that it's much more like theological Jenga: you can remove a piece or two, even a few pieces, but eventually the whole thing will fall under its own weight.

Pr. Timothy Winterstein

:D :D :D

Theological Jenga!

Now that's a line for the ages!
I like it. That's what I felt happening to me at seminary. Many of the pieces I thought were holding up my Christian faith were pulled out. What I discovered is that they were extra baggage and not really part of the essential foundation of Christianity: justification by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
I flunked retirement. Serving as a part-time interim in Ferndale, WA.

Just_Here_For_CWA

Luther had three theological pieces: justification by grace through faith, Theology of the Cross and Law and Gospel. Brian, you cannot claim the first essential without the third one. And you do not do Law and Gospel, you do gospel reductionism by my long reading of your posts. Sorry.

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