News:


Main Menu

Recent posts

#11
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Satire Does It Ag...
Last post by peter_speckhard - Today at 04:35:09 PM
Quote from: John Mundinger on Today at 02:20:10 PM
Quote from: peter_speckhard on Today at 02:14:02 PMThat you honestly believe those statements is funnier than any satire could be. If Hans Fiene said, "People like John Mundinger believe anyone who is not "woke" is oblivious to how our society is at odds with the commandment to love the neighbor and that anyone who is not progressive believes that white Americans are superior to everyone else," you'd be insulted that he was putting ridiculous and inflammatory ideas in your mouth. I don't think you actually believe either of the statements you made above about woke and progressive and their opposites.

That you are oblivious to the measure of truth in those statements causes me to wonder the degree to which your faith informs your politics vs. the degree to which your politics informs your faith.
I am fully cognizant of the silly political lens through which you see those statements as true. They are false in the real world. Just because people reject your Marxist solutions doesn't mean they are unaware of the problem or think white Americans are superior to all other people. 
#12
Your Turn / Re: Women in Ministry
Last post by peter_speckhard - Today at 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: Charles Austin on Today at 02:15:00 PMPeter:
I don't know of anyone who has said that people who do not take Genesis literally are therefore damned or somehow outside the Christian faith no that basis alone
Me:
Then you have never read what Rolf Preus or similar fundamentalists post here. To question Genesis is to question Jesus himself, he says. He's your guy. If he's wrong, you correct him.
Actually, I have read what the others, none of whom are fundamentalists, post here. The thing is, I read what they write. You read what you just know they secretly meant. Even saying that to question Genesis is to question Jesus Himself is not to declare those who do so damned or outside the Church. It means they are wrong to do so.
#13
Your Turn / Re: Yes, they do live among us...
Last post by Donald_Kirchner - Today at 04:08:29 PM
A colleague contacted me about the response. LOL! Not just a nudnik but an ignorant one at that!  ::)
#14
Your Turn / Re: "Plain" Reading of Scriptu...
Last post by RF - Today at 03:46:39 PM
Quote from: SomeoneWrites on Today at 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: RF on Today at 03:10:00 PMI wonder if those people who died on the Baltimore bridge when it collapsed had faith in engineering and construction "facts".
That's not a relevant comparison and should be withdrawn. 

Quote from: Rob Morris on Today at 12:58:50 PMEveryone has faith, usually in their own minds and things that can be proven repeatedly using the scientific method. Sometimes even by hearing the Word and internalizing it. And, I think I'm living in the ALPB Matrix but I can't prove it.  I am just observing the behaviors. ;-)
You continue to equivocate terms and that makes communication difficult. 

Thanks for your opinion on the first quote above.  The second quote above is from me, not Pastor Morris. 

Edit to add:
By the way, did you have any comments about the 1517.org article that I excerpted from?  Lots of meat in it from my perspective.

And FWIW, I am quite well educated in science and engineering. But thanks anyway for the rainbow colors explanation. May the photons speed your way to provide light to the darkness.
#15
Your Turn / Re: "Plain" Reading of Scriptu...
Last post by SomeoneWrites - Today at 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: RF on Today at 03:10:00 PMI wonder if those people who died on the Baltimore bridge when it collapsed had faith in engineering and construction "facts".
That's not a relevant comparison and should be withdrawn. 

Quote from: RF on Today at 03:10:00 PMEveryone has faith, usually in their own minds and things that can be proven repeatedly using the scientific method. Sometimes even by hearing the Word and internalizing it. And, I think I'm living in the ALPB Matrix but I can't prove it.  I am just observing the behaviors. ;-)
You continue to equivocate terms and that makes communication difficult. 
#16
Your Turn / Re: "Plain" Reading of Scriptu...
Last post by RF - Today at 03:10:00 PM
Quote from: SomeoneWrites on Today at 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: RF on Today at 01:12:01 PMWhich realm do you have faith in?  Right - faith in the Scriptures and the Word of God.  Left - faith in the myth of Genesis, paleontology, astronomy, geology, Darwinism. Or, are you a lukewarm centrist?  ;-) 

I don't think you meant this with malice, but it's muddy and unhelpful.
It muddies concepts of "faith."  I understand Evolution (Darwinism is not the right term) in the same way I understand a round Earth and Plate Tectonics. 

as an aside
The Rainbow Flag is a specific arrangment of colors.  The Rainbow itself and be represented a number of ways as it's a spectrum of light.  ROYGBIV is an arbitrary division of colors.  A true rainbow flag would have thousands of wavelengths represented. 

I wonder if those people who died on the Baltimore bridge when it collapsed had faith in engineering and construction "facts".

Everyone has faith, usually in their own minds and things that can be proven repeatedly using the scientific method. Sometimes even by hearing the Word and internalizing it. And, I think I'm living in the ALPB Matrix but I can't prove it.  I am just observing the behaviors. ;-)
#17
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Satire Does It Ag...
Last post by Dan Fienen - Today at 03:03:06 PM
Quote from: John Mundinger on Today at 02:24:03 PM
Quote from: RDPreus on Today at 02:06:25 PMMr. Mundinger, have you ever considered the possibility that you are being judgmental toward others and that this keeps you from understanding what they are really trying to say?  Perhaps if you applied to yourself the requirement of the Eighth Commandment that you apply to others you would gain a better understanding of what others, especially those with whom you may not agree, are saying.

Yes.  I also have seriously considered the fact that, although that post might not accurately reflect Hans Fiene's perspective, it certainly is consistent with the attitudes of many who have mindlessly bought into the MAGA agenda.
So, even if the positions you attributed to Pr. Fiene (no relative of mine that I can tell) are not actually his, it is perfectly fine to attribute them to him since there are people out there, somewhere, who do have those positions? Guilt by association is a fine thing when you do it?

Dan Fienen
#18
Your Turn / Re: "Plain" Reading of Scriptu...
Last post by SomeoneWrites - Today at 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: RF on Today at 01:12:01 PMWhich realm do you have faith in?  Right - faith in the Scriptures and the Word of God.  Left - faith in the myth of Genesis, paleontology, astronomy, geology, Darwinism. Or, are you a lukewarm centrist?  ;-) 

I don't think you meant this with malice, but it's muddy and unhelpful.
It muddies concepts of "faith."  I understand Evolution (Darwinism is not the right term) in the same way I understand a round Earth and Plate Tectonics. 

as an aside
The Rainbow Flag is a specific arrangment of colors.  The Rainbow itself and be represented a number of ways as it's a spectrum of light.  ROYGBIV is an arbitrary division of colors.  A true rainbow flag would have thousands of wavelengths represented. 
#19
Your Turn / Re: Women in Ministry
Last post by SomeoneWrites - Today at 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: Rob Morris on Today at 12:58:50 PMBusy couple of days, so this has to be brief...
Understood, so my thanks is even greater. 

Quote from: Rob Morris on Today at 12:58:50 PMFor starters, when you jumped in with Pastor Stoffregen's comparison, it wasn't clear to me that you were intending a different point than his (which I will in its turn try to carve out time to address). I have frequently used Tolkien or, even more often, JK Rowling, as an analogy for how an author can create entire worlds with complete authority. Also for how an author is not bound by the timeline of his/her characters, but exists on a different plane entirely. This is a salutary comparison to make (when acknowledging its limitations).
I think we're on the same page. 

Quote from: Rob Morris on Today at 12:58:50 PMWhere it becomes offensive is if the limitations are ignored and the simple comparison is made between Scripture and fiction. That renders the ancients as nothing more than ignoramuses and fools. Foolishness and ignorance are far easier found nearer to home.
Understood.  I've never had it to where the authors are foolish idiots, explicitly or implicitly.  I can say that several wrote about things they didn't know about, and my position is that the human writers incorporated myth into their text.  It's a narrative that is written to explain origins.  That's not a derogatory statement, and it doesn't insinuate malice or ineptness.  Assuming God is real, this also makes sense to me. 

Quote from: Rob Morris on Today at 12:58:50 PMNot wishing to relitigate the 1:1 debate. My point remains (and to recap for Pr. Benke, who saw something on TikTok to the contrary) - there is no other way to simply state "In the beginning, God created..." than what we currently see in the text. There would be myriad ways to state something different if that were the author's intent. To make "bereshith" be construct requires ignoring the preposition, as there is zero evidence of that form ever occurring anywhere. The bar to prove an esoteric reading is nowhere near met. I said it over and again, if the verse read, "In the morning, Abraham rose..." not a single scholar would have raised a single question. No one would ever translate it as, "In the morning of when Abraham had already arisen but was still continuing to arise." Asking for further proof is like asking for proof that the sky is blue (for Pastor Stoffregen's sake I will specify: a cloudless, daytime sky at the equator in the absence of an eclipse or other cataclysm as beheld by someone who is not colorblind nor using some other language or dialect to describe the color ;) ). Other than looking at the sky and looking at a color swatch marked blue, what further evidence should be provided? The burden of proof is on the one seeking a different explanation.
I think we've discussed this.  The non-traditional reading of "beginning" is plausible, pointable, readable, supported by scholarship - and most importantly - doesn't have any effect on the historicity of Genesis at all. For you and I, it's a side conversation for funzies.  The opening could read, "This is a written history of the world" and I would still take it as a myth from a well meaning human author - and for this coversation, an author moved by the spirit of God to provide a relatable account for humans to receive in that era, with the purpose of leading them to Jesus. 

Quote from: Rob Morris on Today at 12:58:50 PMI would be fascinated to hear your theories on demon influence as hinted in your message. Ever in CT?

I might not have been clear in what I was saying - I was sharing that, while I don't appreciate when Christians say I'm influenced by (or possessed by) demons, I can try and understand where they're coming from. 

If I'm ever nearby, I would enjoy conversation very much.
#20
Your Turn / Re: Lutheran Satire Does It Ag...
Last post by John Mundinger - Today at 02:24:03 PM
Quote from: RDPreus on Today at 02:06:25 PMMr. Mundinger, have you ever considered the possibility that you are being judgmental toward others and that this keeps you from understanding what they are really trying to say?  Perhaps if you applied to yourself the requirement of the Eighth Commandment that you apply to others you would gain a better understanding of what others, especially those with whom you may not agree, are saying.

Yes.  I also have seriously considered the fact that, although that post might not accurately reflect Hans Fiene's perspective, it certainly is consistent with the attitudes of many who have mindlessly bought into the MAGA agenda.
SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk