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Messages - JEdwards

#31
Your Turn / Re: Colorado is taking all the "Ls"
July 03, 2023, 03:26:16 PM
Quote from: Michael Slusser on July 01, 2023, 04:30:37 PM
Quote from: Jim Butler on July 01, 2023, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: Michael Slusser on July 01, 2023, 03:13:19 PM
I take Justice Gorsuch's point that Colorado can be enjoined, on 1st Amendment grounds, from requiring Ms. Smith to produce and host a website that proclaims a message contrary to her beliefs.

He doesn't seem to me to address the issue of her intent to publish on a continuing basis the statement that in the lower court she said she wants to issue:
QuoteAppellants also intend to publish a statement explaining Ms. Smith's religious objections (the "Proposed Statement"):

These same religious convictions that motivate me also prevent me from creating websites promoting and celebrating ideas or messages that violate my beliefs. So I will not be able to create websites for same-sex marriages or any other marriage that is not between one man and one woman. Doing that would compromise my Christian witness and tell a story
about marriage that contradicts God's true story of marriage - the very story He is calling me to promote.
Aplts.' App. at 2-326 (ΒΆ 91).

Is that statement more like "No shirt, no shoes, no service" or like "We do not serve people of such-and-such a race/class/sexual orientation"? It is not an expression of her creative art, like the websites she cannot be forced to produce and run, but an open declaration of her business practices.

Court documents show that Colorado stipulated that she has and will continue to serve LBGT clients; therefore it cannot mean "We do not serve people of such-and-such a race/class/sexual orientation".

The phrase, "creating websites" reflects her creative art. The key phrase is "celebrating ideas or messages that violate my beliefs." (Emph. mine) I assume that wedding websites are simply an example of the type of website she would not create. I'm sure she would refuse to create an antisemitic or racist website as well as that would celebrate an idea or message that would violate her beliefs.
There was not, as far as I could see, in the whole opinion any statement that Ms. Smith retracted her intention to post the statement she made in the lower court. My question is whether that is "more like "No shirt, no shoes, no service" or like "We do not serve people of such-and-such a race/class/sexual orientation"? The former seems not to be a problem in Colorado or any state; the second would probably be improperly discriminatory. What about Ms. Smith's statement? The stipulations she and Colorado made (which are very helpful in many respects) don't say whether she intends to go ahead with the statement or not.

Peace,
Michael
Both of the options you give are explanations for not serving a person.  Ms. Smith is unwilling to provide a product.  She would not create a website celebrating a same-sex wedding even if paid for by the heterosexual parents of one member of the couple.  I think a closer analogy would be to a restaurant that advertises that it only serves "ethically-sourced meat", or a jeweler advertising that it only sells "conflict-free diamonds."  In each case, the business owner is making a distinction that may be unimportant to some, even many, potential customers, but it is still his or her distinction to make.

Peace,
Jon
#32
Your Turn / Re: The "Sparkle Creed"
June 29, 2023, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: Richard Johnson on June 29, 2023, 08:34:03 AM
Quote from: Fletch1 on June 29, 2023, 06:13:30 AM

The red flag that first caught my attention was when new hymnals came into the congregation.  The liturgy changed from "It is right to give Him thanks and praise" to "It is right to give our thanks and praise".  The focus shifted from being on God to being on man, the Creator to the creature.  Was all downhill after that.  Her church, Sparkle Creed .... were will it end?

I don't like that, either, and don't say it, but it is worth pointing out that the Latin there is much more truncated: just something like "It is meet and right," as I recall.
The current English translation approved by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops renders it: "It is right and just."
Peace,
Jon
#33
Your Turn / Re: The "Sparkle Creed"
June 28, 2023, 10:22:56 PM
Quote from: Jim Butler on June 28, 2023, 08:46:55 PM
Of course, I understand that such language is offensive in the ELCA. That is why it changed the liturgy to eliminate masculine language (e.g. "Glory to God in the highest and peace to God's people on earth") and also the Psalms (e.g. The Lord is my shepherd...you lead me, etc.).
Yes, but the most gag-inducing change of all, in my opinion, is the ELW's alteration of the great hymn "Wake, Awake, for Night is Flying."  The old lyrics "For her [Zion's] Lord comes down all glorious" have been changed to "Her dear friend comes down all glorious" 🤮

Peace,
Jon
#34
Quote from: Brian Stoffregen on June 14, 2023, 03:50:18 PM
As I noted, even in the U.S. women were not allowed to vote until 1920 - after about 10 years of work to change the rules and start changing the culture.
I thought you lived in Wyoming at one point.  You should know better.

Peace,
Jon
#35
Your Turn / Re: Christian Nationalism? No
May 10, 2023, 09:20:05 PM
Quote from: Dan Fienen on May 10, 2023, 05:48:58 PM
Comments that I heard today questioned whether the civil verdict against Trump would be disqualifying for his presidential run. Ask the Clintons whether sexual impropriety disqualifies someone for being president.
The Clintons are not on this forum, but Pastor Dan Fienen is. So I'll ask him.
Peace,
Jon
#36
Your Turn / Re: Homeschooling
May 05, 2023, 01:46:49 PM
A little off topic, but my daughter just informed me that one of the essay options on today's AP European History test was about Martin Luther, so she felt pretty good about it  :)

Peace,
Jon
#37
Your Turn / Re: Homeschooling
May 04, 2023, 04:14:49 PM
Quote from: Chris Schelp on May 04, 2023, 03:40:52 PM
And this is why the current public school system is to be avoided at all costs: it indoctrinates children into falsehoods (and yes, I can state objectively that they are falsehoods).
I think that is painting with an extremely broad brush.  There not one "public school system", but literally tens of thousands of them.  My wife and I chose to settle in an area where the public schools provide a high-quality education, and, while not specifically endorsing our religious belief (not their job anyway), respect religious conviction and do not actively undermine it.  For us, sending our kids to the public school was a matter of good financial stewardship.  Three of our four kids have already graduated and chosen church-affiliated colleges (one is a Valpo grad, the other 2 attend Roman Catholic universities).

Peace,
Jon
#38
Quote from: Charles Austin on May 04, 2023, 07:39:09 AM
All over the world there were many joint observances of the Reformation in 2017. The pope took part in one alongside the female Archbishop of Canterbury.
There has never been a female Archbishop of Canterbury in the Anglican Communion.

Peace,
Jon
#39
Quote from: peter_speckhard on May 03, 2023, 09:40:46 PM
Baptizing and confirming an infant at the same service makes no sense to me no matter what your take on confirmation is.
Eastern Christians disagree with you:

https://thebyzantinelife.com/baptism-communion-chrismation/#:~:text=In%20the%20Eastern%20Church%2C%20babies,infants%20directly%20after%20their%20baptisms.

Peace,
Jon
#40
Your Turn / Re: Mifepristone and the Courts
April 21, 2023, 07:11:57 PM
Over 2 noted dissents, SCOTUS has ordered that the status quo ante be restored until the full process (including possible plenary review by the Court) plays out completely.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22a901_3d9g.pdf
#41
Electoral-vote.com is a news and politics site with a decidedly left-leaning point of view, but generally (imho) tries to be fair-minded and thorough.  Most readers are pro-choice, but the site hosts invited pro-life readers to respond to questions from pro-choicers.  One of the volunteers described himself as a LCMS pastor in Texas.  Another respondent was a Catholic layman, and the third correspondent described himself as "religious" and an alumnus of Notre Dame, but didn't specify his church affiliation.  Overall, I thought all 3 pro-life commentators were models of presenting their point of view in an uncompromising but civil way:

https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2023/Items/Apr20-2.html

Peace,
Jon
#42
Your Turn / Re: A Bee Sting
April 10, 2023, 07:50:36 PM
God Confirms Orthodox Rapture Will Occur One Week After Regular Rapture

https://babylonbee.com/news/god-confirms-orthodox-rapture-will-occur-one-week-after-regular-rapture
#43
Your Turn / Re: Pope Francis' Telegram to Nashville
March 29, 2023, 04:31:20 PM
Let us also pray for Pope Francis, now hospitalized with a respiratory infection.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pope-francis-hospital-vatican-cancels-audiences-rome-holy-week-rcna77252

Peace,
Jon
#44
Quote from: Mike in Pennsylvania on March 21, 2023, 01:36:26 PM
I've known a few pastors who received honorary doctorates or got D.Min's, and let it go to their heads.  Afterwards they disdained being called "pastor" and insisted on being called "doctor."  I used to ask, "Aren't they pastors anymore?"  Actually, some of them got a good deal less pastoral after getting that doctorate.

Personally, I think "pastor" is a pretty good title to be honored with.
I heard a (possibly apocryphal) story about a Lutheran pastor who had founded a social services ministry in Cleveland.  Over the years, he received several honors from a number of civic organizations, and one of his collaborators finally noticed that he hadn't received any fancy award from his own church body.  The collaborator hoped to remedy this by nominating him for an award.  When he asked the pastor, "What is the highest award the Lutheran Church bestows?" he got a one-word answer:  "Baptism." :)

Peace,
Jon
#45
Remember that the RC Church thinks in centuries.  "Temporary" doesn't necessarily mean "changing in the near future"; it could just as easily mean, "We'll re-evaluate after 500 more years."  Nevertheless, even if he is not breaking new ground, Francis' decision to reiterate the point may be significant.

Peace,
Jon
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