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Messages - Fcdwyn

Your Turn / Re: No Half Measures for Franzmann
March 28, 2024, 12:58:53 PM
Goal -- Yes!     Malady -- Yes!     Means -- ??

K. S Hahn, CSL '72
Your Turn / Re: LCMS 2023 Convention
June 24, 2023, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: peter_speckhard on June 24, 2023, 07:35:04 PM
Three very old LCMS churches in Beecher, IL are merging into one new parish. It can be done.

It would be interesting to see how this effort started; where it currently is; some organizational details, etc. And finally results. Any information available to inquiring circuit/district leaders?

K. S. Hahn CSL '72
Very glad to read Dr. Marriott's letter as he affirms the people and experiences that indicate faithfulness to the Scriptures and the Confessions. He emphasizes the positive relationships with staff and students of color which we can all affirm.

But nothing was said about how they relate and minister to LGBTQ+.  In the visitation report that is the issue that seemed to be of concern to the visitation team. Am I correct?

Another qestion: I'm assuming that CTX would now see themselves relating to LCMS in the tradition of VU (Ind.) and LCMS.  That would be fine but what about ownership of the buildings and land?  Obviously VU owned its campus outright.  Who owns CTX (I assume LCMS does. Am I wrong about that?)  Can CTX just wlk away from LCMS governance without paying mega $$$$ to LCMS for the right to self-govern?

One more question: I get Diversity and Inclusion to some degree. But what is Equity all  about? Equal outcome for all? 

K. S. Hahn CSL '72
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Dystopian Future
May 31, 2023, 03:54:42 PM

To Ken Hahn (CSL 72) - I couldn't make it to the 50th ordination anniversary last fall, but Judy and I are planning to go this year since I stuck around for an extra year until 1973 for an STM.  Did you go to the festivities last fall?

Dave Benke

No, didn't make it as Bonnie and I had a busy summer/fall moving from CA (PSD) to Springville, Alabama (Southern District). Retirement $$ go a lot further in AL than they did in CA!
Your Turn / Re: Jemar Tisby
May 31, 2023, 02:29:45 PM
Faultlines -- The Social Justice Movement and Evangelicalism's Looming Catastrophe, by Voddie T. Baucham, Jr. (2020) I found to be a worthwhile read.

K. S. Hahn, CSL '72
Your Turn / Re: LCMS Dystopian Future
May 31, 2023, 01:43:37 PM
Quote from: peter_speckhard on May 31, 2023, 01:28:17 PM
The only item on their list of problems and proposed changes that really jumped out at me is the standard challenger's pipedream in any election, secular or ecclesial-- Division and factionalism would be replaced with a willingness to work together with mutual respect, trust, and support — to have each other's backs rather than talking behind them. We need different kinds of churches to reach all kinds of people.

Really? Voting out the incumbent would result in everyone becoming willing to work together with mutual respect, trust, and support? The letter is signed by former SP Kieschnick, who was voted out as an incumbent. What on earth makes Dr. Ferry and his supporters think the supporters of Harrison will do anything in a Ferry presidency other than exactly what these signatories are doing to Harrison?

Don't get me wrong. I'm content with Harrison as SP and think Ferry would also do a great job. I just don't think any of our disagreements, divisions, or factions are caused by who the president is. If you don't like factions, stop being one. If disagreement is the problem, stop disagreeing and it goes away.

One whimsical note: if one of the key problems is an aging synod too rooted in the past, wouldn't it have been better to get signatories whose average age was lower rather than substantially higher than the synod's? And doesn't the title "emeritus" speak against the central thrust of the campaign?

I seem to remember that one reason to vote in Harrison back in 2010 was because of the loss of membership in so many districts (when Dr. Kieschnick and many of these "emerituses" were active).

K. S. Hahn, CSL '72
Your Turn / Re: The Aging LCMS Pastors & Laity
May 03, 2023, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: Dave Likeness on May 03, 2023, 02:37:40 PM
If you look at the trends in the LCMS for pastoral candidates
from our 2 seminaries, then you realize that second career
pastors will raise the median age of parish pastors.

The old tradition of most seminary candidates with 4 years of
college followed immediately by 4 years of seminary training
is over.  Most of those men were 25 or 26 years old when they
accepted their first call as a seminary candidate.

How many Calls were given from each seminary last month?

K S Hahn  CSL '72
Your Turn / Re: Concordia University Texas
April 23, 2023, 07:05:12 PM
Quote from: D. Engebretson on April 22, 2023, 05:22:36 PM
The report highlights the visitation team's disappointment in how we handle social issues. However, we want to emphasize that we have never received clear guidance from the LCMS or the CUS on how they would expect our colleges to serve people from diverse racial backgrounds or sexual identities. Despite this lack of direction, we have
remained true to our Lutheran identity while serving our Central Texas community. We believe that our commitment
to DEI reflects our values and mission, and we are committed to continuing to address these issues in a way
consistent with our Christian and Lutheran identity.

It would be helpful to specifically know how they serve people from "diverse...sexual identities," especially in light of the usual accepted principles of DEI.  To what degree do they accommodate people from "diverse..sexual identities"?

Yes, and how does CTX minister to people from "diverse...sexual identities...," in a way that also maintains CTX's Lutheran identity and CTX's commitment to the teachings of the Scriptures? One would assume that all the clear guidance sought by any Lutheran institution would be found in the Scriptures to which LCMS, CUS, and, yes, CTX are committed.

K S Hahn, CSL '72   

Your Turn / Re: Farewell
February 06, 2023, 09:18:03 PM
I believe that you have made Paul's words to the Philippians your own by your pastoral ministry to many people and your ministry to us and others during your last days: "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
The peace of the Lord, Richard.

Ken Hahn CSL, '72
November 21, 2022, 09:38:47 AM
Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done. While the earth remains, seed time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease."  Genesis 8:20-22
Your Turn / Re: Some Additional Thoughts on Dying
November 16, 2022, 05:31:54 PM
Thank you so much, Pastor Bolland for these thoughts and all that you have written since your diagnosis. You and your words are indeed a blessing to me.

K. S. Hahn, CSL '72
Your Turn / Re: United List…Here We Go
August 26, 2022, 07:09:38 PM
Quote from: D. Engebretson on August 26, 2022, 04:52:20 PM
Quote from: Dave Benke on August 26, 2022, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: D. Engebretson on August 26, 2022, 02:52:20 PM
Just to balance things out, I know that some years ago an organization by the name of Jesus First also produced voting lists.  I remember them being handed out at the convention that year in St. Louis.  That group disappeared, but I think it was, more or less, replaced by another one called Congregations Matter which also had its own voting suggestions, at least for president:  Its website seems well organized, but little activity in recent months.  It was much more active in the election year of 2019, so I assume it will resume with more activity as we approach 2023.

It's really an unbalanced line, though, Don, isn't it?

a) Jesus First has been gone for around fifteen years.  The other groups have conferences, often at Ft. Wayne, to this very day. 
b) Congregations Matter had one issue of importance what, four or seven years ago, which was the use of the Synodical mailing system by the incumbent President to rally nominations for himself for President.  Questions were raised.  Were they answered?  Not in the least.Where did that go?
c) There's bound to be another candidate than Matt, and one not named Dave Maier, as someone who's on a different tack from those on the current Praesidium. 
d) If you remember these things from back in the day, the old methodology was to have a list prepared by - guess who - the Nominations Committee elected at District Conventions.  That's THE list.  Then depending on the makeup of that committee, there was a ghost list prepared by - guess who - the United List - and those folks were then nominated from the floor and went on mostly to victory.  A person completely burned in that process was the Nominations Committee member from the Atlantic District at that time.  Because the Nominations Committee spent days in meetings preparing those candidates for the slate.  The United List superceded that committee, purposefully, not "just to put out a list," but to put an alternate list before the convention from the one assembled by those duly elected to serve
d) Directly to the point, wasn't Congregations Matter (COVID fog) a group with the names of individuals attached to it?  I know Jesus First was such a group.

Dave Benke

Why did Jesus First and Congregations Matter essentially disappear? I know that JF, 'back in the day', was quite active, politically speaking, and may well have been responsible, at least in part, for Kieschnick's election.  Was it an aging of those involved in these organizations, apathy, or something else?

A significant factor in Dr. Kieschnick's election was the continual critique by Christian News that went on for weeks prior to the convention of Dr. Dean Wenthe's OT writings-IIRC, his doctoral work done at Notre Dame. If you look at the numbers (In 2001, with no incumbent on the ballot, Gerald Kieschnick won by 18 votes), the 18 vote margin was in favor of the "conservative" candidates on the first ballot and held until the final ballot, when 18 Hartwig voters went for Kieschnick and not Wenthe. To support this, when Dr. Daniel Preus was subsequently elected 1st Vice President he won by - yes - 18 votes.

K. S. Hahn  CSL '72
Your Turn / Re: Christianity and climate
August 23, 2022, 10:10:13 AM
Quote from: Fletch1 on August 23, 2022, 09:50:44 AM
To the question:
'Why is the climate changing?', I respond, 'Why not?  The whole creation is cursed because man wanted to be like God, what do you expect?  Not much has changed.'

Genesis 8:20-22 "Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done. "As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will never cease."

K.S. Hahn   CSL '72
Your Turn / Re: cur alii prae aliis
June 10, 2022, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on June 09, 2022, 07:30:41 PM
Quote from: Dave Benke on June 09, 2022, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: Rev. Edward Engelbrecht on June 09, 2022, 03:25:29 PM
As I think about the question, I'll consider two ways of framing it:

Why are some elected rather than others?
Why are some saved rather than others?

These questions share a lot in common. Yet we cannot fully or well answer the first question. We have insight into the second, at least from a human perspective. I'll draw on a life example about the second question.

We just today finished distributing 2,500 fliers to our neighborhood. Everyone is invited and welcome to come to our VBS but not everyone here received an invitation. Some homes have "Do not solicit/trespass" on them. So we pass them by. They aren't getting the Gospel message because they have chosen to raise a barrier that blocks it. Has the Lord rejected them? John 3:16 says no. Have the people who received the invitation been elected by God? Insight tells us not all will welcome the message.

The first question above is like the dark side of the moon. We believe it is there but we cannot explore it from this vantage point. The second question we can explore. It is accessible to our experience. Matthew 13 and the Parable of the Sower bring us about as close as we can get to an answer. We may have more questions but more importantly, there's work to be done and we see it bear fruit. Why wonder more?

To your example, there is a science fiction short story somewhere about the process you describe.  The story takes place in some very isolated mountain area.  It turns out that some form of the extension of the Gospel - flyers, missionaries, word of mouth, has reached every tribe and people group in the world except this one isolated tribe.  And a missionary wanders by chance into this tribal area, and is taken to the leader, and presents the reason he's there - the Gospel.  As that conversation takes place, the command of Jesus in Matthew 28 is completed.  And the missionary and leader look up into the sky - and it's the eschaton. 

I don't know if you've baptized many people who started out as a Muslim, a Hindu, or a Zoroastrian (Persian).  When that catechization takes place, the world of the New Testament (and the Mormons) comes right into view, because people wonder - speaking of wondering - about their dead parents and family members.  Are they roasting in hell?  What about Auntie?  What about Rashid? 

Dave Benke

I've not had this honor or dilemma but we did discuss it at Bible Study last night, what happens with the ancestors. One who helped me think about this matter was Norman Nagel. When it came up in discussion, he said, "That's a God-sized problem with a God-sized answer." In other words, we leave such judgement to God. It's not our calling to send ANYONE to heaven or hell. That's God's responsibility. Our is to make His Word known.

As to whom I am baptizing, the children and grandchildren of many addicts and broken homes. On Sunday I will baptize four children of Caribbean-Hispanic descent and one Anglo child whose dad is a recovering addict. Joy in heaven!

Are the parents and grandparents of all these children you are privileged to baptize believers? Are they  committed to "bring their children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord?"  Those of us who have been called to administer the Sacrament of Holy Baptism know the disappointment and concern when some of those children we baptize never show up for Sunday school or Confirmation class.  Does the "joy in heaven" (Luke 15) come at baptism or at Confirmation?

K.S. Hahn CSL '72
Quote from: Donald_Kirchner on April 12, 2022, 11:27:06 AM
BTW, Dave, how are things outside your door?

13 injured in Brooklyn subway rush hour shooting this morning. Undetonated devices found.  You and yours OK, Dave?

K.S. Hahn 'CSL '72
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