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Messages - Coach-Rev

Your Turn / Re: Life Isn't Fair
July 18, 2024, 10:38:35 PM
Quote from: Charles Austin on July 18, 2024, 03:47:26 AMPerhaps the Lord will have eternal mercy on the crazed defenders of right-wing religious tyranny, but in today's world, I cannot.
Moderators, ALPB officials, do you really want the words of the Preus/RF posters to show up in Google or AI searches? When does their extremism - vile insults on posters here, language abuse (sodomites, perverts) - go too far? Ever?

that's rich coming from you, who is the master of extremism and vile insults on posters here. 
Quote from: RDPreus on July 15, 2024, 10:32:16 AMI have been arguing against ascertaining divine motives here.  I'm simply pointing out that the killer failed to kill Trump and that it was God who protected Trump from being killed.  I don't know why, and I don't know why God didn't protect the life of the man that the killer killed. I don't pretend to know why God does what he does.

Just like we don't know why the holy innocents of Bethlehem had to die to spare the life of Jesus. 
Your Turn / Re: Some people claim...
July 08, 2024, 10:57:54 AM
Quote from: David Garner on July 06, 2024, 10:00:30 PM
Quote from: Charles Austin on July 06, 2024, 09:35:52 PMI fear we may get the kind of governance deserved by the MAGATs, the crazed "pro-lifers," the power-hungry "evangelicals" wanting to legislate faith and morality, the "Democrats/Liberals are evil" numbskulls, the Marjory Taylor Green conspiracy idiots, the adherents of various screwball worldviews (including a historic Adam and Eve), the racists, the holocaust deniers, the "America First" Nazis, the Trump-is-no-worse-than-Biden dimwits, those who do not know what we almost lost in the  1920s and 1930s and the brain-damaged jerks who slept through every civics or history class in their life.
Didn't think I would have to mount the barricades again at my age, but I guess I better get ready.

Weird how people who disagree with you don't find this compelling.

You just don't know how to talk to a girl.

I only read Austin's rants when someone quotes it, as I've had him on 'ignore' for some time now.  Sadly, I read this one, and I've highlighted all of the reasons why I no longer even bother to read him.  He complains constantly when someone accuses him of being _____ (fill in the blank) but apparently it is perfectly acceptable to shoot the other way.  Someone here even has their tagline as a quote from him doing the very thing he does in this post.  Quite frankly, you ought to be thoroughly ashamed of yourself for what you wrote.

A word of advice, Charles.  Until you can somehow find at least a modicum of compassion or at least understanding of another's point of view that you vehemently disagree with, you are the problem. 
Quote from: John Mundinger on June 10, 2024, 08:35:08 AMI think that ascribing "inerrant" to the Bible is an effort to solve the puzzle, to reduce God's wisdom to the limits of human reason.

No.  You've got it completely backwards.  It's use among those I know indicates just the opposite.  When there is a perceived "problem" in Scripture, the problem lies with US, and NOT with it.
Your Turn / Re: White Privilege and Caitlin Clark
June 05, 2024, 11:58:50 AM
I've got the solution to the disparity in pay that a couple here are lamenting.

Let all of the transgender males into the WNBA.  After all, it has worked so well for every other sport.  ::)

(and before anyone gets their undies in a bunch, I'm not only kidding, but shocked that someone hasn't brought up the discussion of men playing in womens' sports here yet, as that is the way the forum usually goes... so consider this as me poking the bear...  ;D )
Quote from: John Mundinger on May 30, 2024, 11:04:36 AM
Quote from: Coach-Rev on May 30, 2024, 10:52:57 AMBut alas that will not happen any time soon as "evolution of species" has become a ruling theory in which only data observed to support the theory is used, and the contradictory data is jettisoned.

Please provide some specific references to contradictory data that has been jettisoned.

The Channeled Scablands of Eastern Washington/Idaho were until the 1930's or so, thought to be something carved out (also the Columbia River Valley of Washington) over millions of years, until a geologist named J Harlan Bretz theorized based on stereographic study of the landforms there that they were carved out over a period of weeks, even days, when a glacial lake (named Missoula) broke through it's terminal moraine, and carved both the Snake and Columbia River canyons, as well as the channeled scablands.  There are giant ripples seen in such analysis, and there are boulders of Columbia River basalt that have been deposited off the Pacific Coast, carried there by the Columbia river, that are the size of modern day locomotives.  The force of such water to move a chunk of basalt that large is beyond comprehension.  His theory is now accepted as fact, and yet the catastrophic sudden nature of these features are seen as an exception. 

Most of the northern plains and Rockies were carved and shaped suddenly when the Yellowstone caldera last erupted, including the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone, being one more exception to the rule. 

Mount Saint Helens (a relatively "small" eruption in our lifetime) permanently altered not only the mountain landscape, but deposited 100 feet of new rock (not sediments) in a matter of hours over the entire southwestern portion of Washington Cascade range. 

The steamboat "Arabia" sunk in the 1850's on the Missouri River and was recently rediscovered in 1988, over a half mile away from the river and under over 45 feet of sediment, which according to geologists would take thousands and tens of thousands of years to accumulate.  Yet it did so in 130 years. 

In 1942, a P-38 "Lightning" crashed on a Greenland glacier.  It was recently rediscovered, buried under almost 300 feet of ice.  According to the "uniformitarian" theory, the ice pile on top of the plane would be well over 100,000 years old, and yet it cannot be more than 82 years old. 

Fossilized dinosaur bones have been analyzed to find soft, spongy tissue still contained within them.  such elastic tissue is not supposed to be possible with bones that claim to have been fossilized 65 million years ago or more.  In fact, soft tissue itself does not survive even a small fraction of that time in modern day testing, and yet it is still there in many instances, including occasional cases of skin and internal organs still being intact on some "65 million year old" species.

The evidence against the slow, sedimentary and depositional processes continues to mount, and yet most geologists claim that all of these things and a multitude of many others are exceptions, rather than the rule.  Now Mr. Mundinger, I would suggest you stop listening to those who want you to accept theory as fact, and start looking at the actual evidence for yourself. 
Quote from: aletheist on May 30, 2024, 10:36:42 AM
Quote from: John Mundinger on May 30, 2024, 09:35:25 AMI accept, as fact, the components of the theory of evolution that is supported with evidence, developed consistent with the scientific method and published consistent with peer review.  That is a statement of reason.
Do you also accept the underlying presupposition of scientific methods as applied to the very distant past, namely, that all natural laws and processes have been operating just as we observe them today over that entire time span? Do you acknowledge that this is an assumption, not a fact, and cannot (even in principle) be corroborated or falsified by scientific methods since it is intrinsic to them? Do you acknowledge that any one-time supernatural event also cannot (even in principle) be corroborated or falsified by scientific methods, especially if it involved permanent alteration of natural laws and processes?

You refer to the geologic principle of "uniformitarianism" (as opposed to the former principle of "neptunism" or "catastrophism" - in support of the Biblical flood) that states "the present is the key to the past."  And yet in science, we see catastrophic events on a nearly regular basis today, and geologists even suspend uniformitarianism on a regular basis to point to past catastrophic events that shaped the landscape around us.  Dr. Del Tackett has it right when he states that both Biblically and scientifically speaking, it should be "the past is the key to the present."  There are so many exceptions to "uniformitarianism" (which is essentially the foundation of both old earth theories and evolution of species") that the exceptions alone undermine both theories.  But alas that will not happen any time soon as "evolution of species" has become a ruling theory in which only data observed to support the theory is used, and the contradictory data is jettisoned.
Quote from: John Mundinger on May 22, 2024, 10:46:53 PM
Quote from: John Mundinger on May 22, 2024, 03:51:13 PMIf that were the case, it should be evident in the fossil record.

I didn't realize that I was speaking with authority on the fossil record.  And, you have already engaged me.  Thus, I will ask.  I'm curious, given your expertise, what evidence do you find in the fossil record that either supports or contradicts the gap theory.

You make a truth claim based on the fossil record.  That, to me, is presupposing that you have authority to speak on what you know to be in the fossil record.  Otherwise you are just blowing steam and parroting back what someone else whom you think is an authority is saying. So if you didn't realize that, perhaps you should not make such claims in the first place.  The observable evidence from both the fossil record and the sedimentary pile not just in the North American Continent but worldwide do not, as a whole, support either old earth theories or evolution of species.  Yes, there is some evidence of such things.  But there is also abundant evidence against both theories, therefore invalidating both.  They are both what geologist T.C. Chamberlin (The Method of Multiple Working Hypotheses) identifies as "ruling theories."
If you want more information on either, do your homework and research, as the forum is not a place to convince anyone of anything.  Largely, it is a place where two sides stare at each other and shout their positions past one another on virtually any and all topics, and why I rarely engage here any longer.
Quote from: John Mundinger on May 22, 2024, 03:51:13 PM
Quote from: Tom Eckstein on May 22, 2024, 03:47:16 PMJust fyi, (and maybe I didnt' explain this clearly enough) the "Gap theory" DOES believe the days of creation are normal 24 hour days.  They just believe a "gap of time" (millions/billions of years?) existed between Genesis 1:1-2 and 1:3.

If that were the case, it should be evident in the fossil record.

I just cringe every time a non-geologist and a non-theologian speak with authority on the fossil record.  I'd ask what you think, exactly, the fossil record shows, but since I have no desire to engage you on this topic, or any, for that matter, I'm not going to take it further.  And before you get your knickers in a twist, My first masters degree was in Sedimentary Petrology, aka the formation and ongoing diagenesis of sedimentary rocks and the fossils contained within.
I thought overtly political discussions were banned here? 
Quote from: aletheist on March 21, 2024, 11:31:05 AM
Quote from: Coach-Rev on March 21, 2024, 11:13:06 AMFrom our perspective, we are awaiting the return of Christ/final judgement/ushering in of God's eternal kingdom.  Why are we waiting for it?  Because for us it has not happened yet as we are bound in time.  Time is just another dimension, and so from the perspective of God, who is timeless, it is already here.  For the deceased, they cease to be bound in time as well, and so from their perspective, it is now as well.
God is certainly outside of time, but what is the Scriptural basis for claiming that the deceased are no longer bound in it? Revelation 6:9-11 seems to suggest that they are likewise waiting for the Last Day, although they are resting while they do so.

I'll admit it's thin.  But what do we make of Jesus telling the thief on the cross, "today you will be with me in paradise?" If not that once we are no longer bound by time, It will be an instantaneous "occurrence" for us.  Again, any discussions on time are for us.  My father has been dead for ten years.  From my perspective, he is asleep and awaiting the final judgement.  From his perspective, because time no longer exists, it is an instantaneous event. 
Your Turn / Re: The Age of the Earth and Truth
March 27, 2024, 04:47:19 PM
Quote from: SomeoneWrites on March 22, 2024, 06:16:23 PMWe can know that the world is millions of years old.  We can know it's billions of years.  There's plenty of corroborating evidence that we can test.  There is plenty not in harmony with Literal creationism, but we don't have to get into that in this way.  I like to test assumptions and use predictions that corroborate from multiple independant lines of inquiry.

sigh.  This has been hashed and reshashed here also time and again.  you state "there is plenty of corroborating evidence that we can test."  And as a former geologist in the field of sedimentary petrology, there is also plenty of uncorroborating evidence that we (meaning science) ignore.  You state "There is plenty not in harmony with Literal creationism."  But I tell you this (as I've stated with evidence many times before), and there is plenty that IS in harmony with a literal creation.  But as I'm sure we'll just go round and round on this yet again, I am compelled to simply offer my rebuttal without taking the time to go round and round again, especially during Holy Week.  Have a blessed day.
I have a somewhat different take on the matter:  You are correct, depending on whose perspective you are talking of.  From our perspective, we are awaiting the return of Christ/final judgement/ushering in of God's eternal kingdom.  Why are we waiting for it?  Because for us it has not happened yet as we are bound in time. Time is just another dimension, and so from the perspective of God, who is timeless, it is already here.  For the deceased, they cease to be bound in time as well, and so from their perspective, it is now as well.  After all, it is Jesus who tells the thief on the cross, "today you will be with me in paradise."

So it all depends on what perspective you are talking:  Those of us who are bound in time, or those who no longer are?
Quote from: John Mundinger on March 19, 2024, 11:16:57 AMScience says that the individual better knows her/his own identity, better than do you when you only consider the letter marked on that person's birth certificate.  Nothing in Scripture contradicts that understanding.

No.  Science does NOT say this.  Science, as in the biological sciences dealing with the kingdom "animalia," is pretty clear on the matter:  You have one of two possibilities:  XX pairing or XY pairing of chromosomes as the egg is fertilized and begins to divide.  And Jesus, whom I assume you still hold to be the authority, clearly states "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female."  (Mark 10:6)  So yes, even Scripture contradicts your understanding.  Please refrain in the future from casting such blanket statements out there to support your wild positions, especially when they are patently untrue. 
Quote from: John Mundinger on March 16, 2024, 06:28:45 AMThat is the scientific method.

John, the scientific method never intended to present theoretical or abstract concepts as factual, or to treat them as such until it is "re-evaluated in the light of new information."  If re-evaluation is even a possibility, then it exists only in the realm of theory and should never be treated as hard fact, which you seem to have a propensity for doing on many fronts.
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