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Messages - peterm

#1
Your Turn / Re: What a Wonderful, Blessed Day!
August 21, 2023, 12:47:54 PM
Yesterday I was struck by one of the benefits of a longer term pastorate (I've been here 10 years and counting.) As I was serving Communion, I realized that all my assistants were youth that I have confirmed.
#2
Your Turn / Re: Dr. Roy Harrisville
July 27, 2023, 02:54:12 PM
Indeed.  He used to host informal gatherings of students in his home on Friday afternoons.  The conversation was wide ranging and fascinating. 
#3
Your Turn / Dr. Roy Harrisville
July 27, 2023, 12:07:27 PM
Word has reached me that Roy Harrisville, long time professor at Luther Seminary has entered into his Eternal Rest.  He is perhaps most well known for his work on the book of Romans, and the Gospel of Mark, but he team taught classes in history and systematics as well.  I and many others learned much from him in and out of the classroom.
#4
My practice has varied depending on my location of service.  On internship it was coat and tie, as I did not feel comfortable wearing a clerical collar while not ordained.  Upon arriving at my first call in upstate NY, which was considerably more high church than either my internship or my congregation growing up, I arrived with an alb and a full set of stoles, but quickly bought more clergy shirts; as that was considered appropriate "uniform" in the synod.  My current practice is to wear clerics when doing visits or other "public functions."  I Vest in alb and stole when I can, but there is not always time to vest at my second church.
#5
Your Turn / Re: Another One Says: Hold My Beer
July 18, 2023, 01:00:10 PM
And how often is that done and the congregation or Pastor ignores the pronouncement of the President, or Bishop?  If the congregation or Pastor chooses to do so, and there are multiple examples on both sides of our fence, there is little a Bishop or President can actually do.
#6
Your Turn / Re: Another One Says: Hold My Beer
July 18, 2023, 11:53:57 AM
Quote from: Jim Butler on July 17, 2023, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: peterm on July 17, 2023, 01:19:25 PM
One of the challenges for both the ELCA and the LCMS is, in my opinion, a large strain of congregationalism.  Both of our systems to large extent see the congregation as the primary expression of the church on earth.  Congregations in both systems are given wide latitude.

Which I would argue is thoroughly biblical and should be the way things are done.

Quote from: peterm on July 17, 2023, 01:19:25 PM
Thus, while in the ELCA we have the office of Bishop (synodical and Presiding) Said office though it carries with it the historical title, does not always carry with it the historical power that could be, and perhaps should be a part of the office.  While we on both sides of the fence might wish it were different especially in cases like this, this is the reality of what we both face.

I don't wish things were different even in cases like this. The congregation is the primary expression of the church on earth. The congregation with Pastor Sparkle Creed, herchurch, and this one with Pastor Wide Hips--I don't have a problem with them. Go do your thing.

That doesn't mean the ELCA or the LCMS needs to tolerate false teaching like this. These pastors should be removed from the church's clergy roster for false doctrine. And, if their congregations won't remove the, the congregation should be removed from the ELCA roster as well--and allowed to take their property with them. It's simple: if pastor and congregation X don't want to follow the rules of the club, then they can't be in the club. They can be an independent Lutheran congregation; no one is stopping them.

Sadly, the ELCA isn't saying that. Pastor Sparkle Creed is still going strong. Pastor Wide Hips is a member of the discipline committee in her synod. That's why, Dave Garner to the contrary, this is about the ELCA writ large.

Yes, the structure of the ELCA and LCMS allow for wide latitude. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be any parameters. Does the LCMS draw those parameters too narrowly? I don't think so; some may disagree. But I think the ELCA is definitely drawing them way too broadly and is in danger of no longer being Christian. After all, what is tolerated will soon take over.

I suppose my larger point is that since we have not explicitly invested the office of Bishop, or President with the powers needed to provide and enforce the guard rails, there is not an effective mechanism for dealing with situations like this effectively.
#7
Your Turn / Re: Another One Says: Hold My Beer
July 17, 2023, 01:19:25 PM
One of the challenges for both the ELCA and the LCMS is, in my opinion, a large strain of congregationalism.  Both of our systems to large extent see the congregation as the primary expression of the church on earth.  Congregations in both systems are given wide latitude.  Thus, while in the ELCA we have the office of Bishop (synodical and Presiding) Said office though it carries with it the historical title, does not always carry with it the historical power that could be, and perhaps should be a part of the office.  While we on both sides of the fence might wish it were different especially in cases like this, this is the reality of what we both face.
#8
Quote from: Weedon on June 07, 2023, 09:51:16 AM
I have often wondered regarding that history if, in a certain way, the direction Missouri took ended up being in part responsible for the direction the ELCA has gone off on. Kind of like the one pool ball colliding with the other and sending it off at a different angle than it was originally moving. We were clearly moving toward one another mid century. I still think the Missouri of today would at least be recognizable to the average Lutheran of the mid 20th century; I'm not sure that the same could be said of the ELCA. I still stand in amazement that the theological heritage of Krauth and Henry Eyster Jacobs has landed where it has; and that it is Missouri (of all things!) that keeps their theological contribution alive. I think I once heard Rast opine that it is an irony of history that Missouri stood aloof from the General Council, and now WE are the General Council.

I think this is an interesting observation, and question.  While I don't have a definitive answer I can say that some of my professors at Luther Seminary had been professors at CSL at the time of the walk out or students at Seminex.  I remember conversations about the whole thing mainly during church history classes.  How much influence those discussions had overall is hard to gauge.
#9
Thanks Father, I hadn't heard that piece of the story.  Interesting.
#10
That was not unusual on the ALC side of the street either.  I remember being told while at Augsburg that the services in the chapel were held under the auspices of Trinity Lutheran a couple of blocks away. (Said congregation now worships in the Augsburg University chapel, having sold their building to the U of M who tore it down to provide space for a parking structure I believe.)  We were told that the same was true at Luther Seminary; St. Anthony Park Lutheran was started, initially on the seminary campus, now across the street, to provide congregational Auspices for worship on Campus.  I'm not sure if those requirements are still in place on our side of the fence.
#11
Having read the article, I wonder if what the author advocates is a ditch on the other side.  It sounds to me that he is advocating replacing corporate confession with individual, and making that the new rubric.  For myself, I see the C&F as an essential part of the liturgical preparation for receiving communion and have always taught it as such.
#12
Your Turn / Re: What a Wonderful, Blessed Day!
April 26, 2023, 10:23:48 AM
What time shall we come to supper?  :)
#13
Your Turn / Re: What a Wonderful, Blessed Day!
April 15, 2023, 03:36:33 PM
While not quite back to pre pandemic attendance, we did have solid attendance for all 3 services.  The 630 sunrise was biggest with 95.  Our services were also graced with a saxophone choir made up of high school youth group members, and the weather was fantastic.
#14
Your Turn / Re: Abuse Scandal Report
April 06, 2023, 11:12:33 AM
Quote from: Charles Austin on April 06, 2023, 09:03:52 AM
For at least 20, maybe 25 years in the ELCA (at least in the NJ synod) all rostered people had to attend (every other year, I think) a workshop on sexual misconduct and abuse. The rostered person and synod both signed off on having attended the sessions and what was covered.
During my years working in national offices, I would hear of a few pastors removed for sexual misconduct, usually involving adult women.
I think we all know there are women who prey on clergy, which does not excuse the pastor involved, it just reminds us to be alert.
Early in the days of the ELCA, I think there were three, maybe four bishops whose misconduct years before came to light.

Here in the Western Iowa synod we have to attend such workshops every other year.  It was also talked about  extensively during seminary years, especially prior to internship.
#15
Your Turn / Re: Politics and Mass Shootings
April 05, 2023, 10:55:33 AM
In homiletics class as first year seminarians we were told a story of a student in previous years who preached a sermon comparing the suffering of Christ to being relegated to the "B' squad for football.  We were warned not to do something like that.  This is something along the same line, causing me to shake my head.  In my opinion it tries way too hard to be "relevant" something that if preached correctly the Gospel always is without contortions like this.
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