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Author Topic: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering  (Read 6017 times)

Eileen Smith

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2012, 05:02:28 PM »
GalRev is so much kinder than I am and I thank her for her words.  I'll admit, I was going to comment; however, I thought this initial post might just be inviting (okay, confession: I didn't keep the 8th Commandment) rather, baiting some of us who might just be seen as a bit more conservative into a discussion. 

Overall, there were pieces of the presentation that I thought were fine - and clearly, she connected with the kids.  I would venture to say that there is far more to her "earlier" life than simply being part of a fundamentalist family/faith group, such as an addictive personality and, perhaps, other psychological issues.  But - that wouldn't have made the point and would be far too much to go into.   I simply add this reflection as I often think "church" is often blamed a bit too much when there are many other extenuating circumstances.  That being said....

My disappointment came towards the end of the presentation.  I didn't appreciate her self-deprecating remarks...(paraphrasing) some of your parents and pastors might not think that I should be speaking to you...and they're right...  But of course she went on to remind us that God uses even people like her.  The 4th Commandment kept going through my mind... maybe I was disturbed by the overwhelming loud applause that remark evoked.  It's hard enough for parents, pastors, teachers to maintain authority without a "figure of authority" tearing it down.  There were a lot of ways she could have stated that she might seem one of the least likely to be sharing a faith story -- without bringing in parents/pastors and making them almost seem small-minded.   

The other piece that came out a bit more at the end of the presentation was the sense I got of "we're all okay just the way we are."  Now I love that old hymn, "Just As I Am."  But is our theology to simply be where we are and not look to God to help us continually turn around and turn toward a more "holy" life in Him.  Yes, I was pleased she strongly spoke of how God comes to us.  And yes, God comes to us as we are. But isn't there then a turning.  And, again, yes - she certainly did go through major changes in her life.  But the almost boastful statements of how she swears, etc., and - gosh - people are behind the door holding their breath about what she'll say.   Could she have, perhaps, described herself more as a bit bit of work in progress - allowing the young people to know that God constantly works in us and changes us, molds us.

Before hitting, "Post" I re-read what Pr. Weedon wrote in starting the thread, "Revisiting Sanctification."  Now, I don't know Pr. Weedon - don't know how entertaining he might be, how relevant to youth his wardrobe may be - I guess the facial hair helps - but I would have loved for the young people from our congregation who were at the NO gathering to have heard some his words, which, for me, his words were more inspiring. 

Charles_Austin

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2012, 05:14:15 PM »
If the gathering was for folks such as those in this modest forum, I have no doubt the planners might have chosen different speakers.
I was once a callow youth at such assemblies back in the 1950s; and we heard folks "different" from the pastors we had at home. Those assemblies led thousands of us to deeper faith and Christian vocations, even as they sort of bothered our parents and some pastors.
I remember playing and singing some of the hymns from a national Luther League Convention at home; and my mother said "You sang that in CHURCH???"
Some of y'all might remember the dust-up, probably in the 60s or later when (OMG! REALLY?) Pete Seeger was to sing at an LCMS youth gathering. It was his peace-nik politics that had people upset, nothing to do with sex or the Bible.
I contend that those presentations, maybe even the ones that do go "over the edge" (and the one in New Orleans did not) do more to preserve faith in young people than to destroy it.

ELCA Pastor. Retired. Happy.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2012, 05:30:02 PM »
Legalism is hard to escape. Those who escape it are legalistic in their opposition to it or their embrace of their favorite alternative.


We escape legalism by dying to self.
Brian Stoffregen
There are two types of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

James_Gale

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2012, 05:50:04 PM »
Legalism is hard to escape. Those who escape it are legalistic in their opposition to it or their embrace of their favorite alternative.


We escape legalism by dying to self.

Are you trying to be funny?  You're saying that in order to escape legalism, I need to accomplish a legalistically defined task (i.e., dying to self).  Very good.

Brian Stoffregen

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2012, 08:25:05 PM »
Legalism is hard to escape. Those who escape it are legalistic in their opposition to it or their embrace of their favorite alternative.


We escape legalism by dying to self.

Are you trying to be funny?  You're saying that in order to escape legalism, I need to accomplish a legalistically defined task (i.e., dying to self).  Very good.

Not being funny; being Lutheran.

Legalism says, "I can do this (if I try hard enough)."
Repentance confesses, "I can't do this (no matter how hard I try)."
Faith says, "God has done for me what I can't do for myself."
Brian Stoffregen
There are two types of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Bergs

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2012, 08:59:37 PM »

This link is to Pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber's presentation at the ELCA Youth Gathering. She is the pastor at Denver's House for all Sinners and Saints that has been discussed in this forum. The presentation includes her movement from a very fundamental church to hating Christianity to becoming a Lutheran minister. I think that she presents the flavor of our ELCA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM9Y5S3UYi8

Yes I know what she feels like when your congregation makes it clear that your "flavor" is not wanted.  It's good that she survived and is able to preach her message.  On another note I would have told her to take a chance on the nice guy for a lot less than $75. 

Brian J. Bergs
Minneapolis, MN

« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 08:36:43 AM by Bergs »
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RevSteve

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2012, 01:23:43 AM »
She was pretty much what I expected; mostly personal recollections, gospel of affirmation, emphasis on inclusivity-which only further perpetuates the lie that the opposition to the sexuality social statement and the changes to ministry guidelines had anything to do with inclusiveness.

However I thought Shane Claiborne who I think spoke the next night was actually much worse.
Pastor Steven M. Bliss LCMC and NALC-  St Olaf Lutheran Church, Bode, Iowa

New quote, got tired of questions about Dante quote...

"Doin stuff is overrated. Like Hitler did a lot of stuff but don't we all wish he would have just sat around all day and got stoned?"-Dex from the Tao of Steve

Dave Benke

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2012, 07:51:09 AM »
I have been as an adult a big fan of the Missouri Synod youth gatherings and gone to almost all of them, and all of the now-discontinued Cross-Cultural Gatherings prior to the "big" one, since the mid-80s (Washington DC was my first).  They were formative spiritual experiences for a whole bunch of urban kids.  One of my all-time favorite speakers was a guy who happens to be Scott Geminn's father-in-law, Tom Rogers, who laid it on us at a gathering held in the same place as the current ELCA gathering, New Orleans; and he was from New Orleans at the time, and a huge Saints fan (and now the Halos of Anaheim).  Another all-timer is Victor Belton, now on the LC-MS Board of Directors.

Anyway, the youtube connector for Nadia Bolz-Weber hooked up a bunch of the other speakers.  What I appreciated listening in was that the topics and backgrounds of the speakers addressed issues of importance to kids today from a specifically Christian, and interesting, perspective.  Lots of connecting to the youth, and food for thought and conversation among the kids and their counselors/pastors; that was always the important part - the debriefing and conversation afterward.  And the relationships formed with kids from around the country. 

Two thumbs up from me from outside the lines. 

Dave Benke

Charles_Austin

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2012, 09:13:32 AM »
Bishop/DP Benke makes a good point. If there are things that - in the not-so-humble opinion of the pastor in East Overshoe, Iowa - slightly off kilter and should the young'uns bring home the wrongly kiltered ideas; there is opportunity to discuss, correct if necessary and further build the pastoral relationship.
My own pastor here in NJ is in New Orleans with a dozen of our young'uns. Even better.
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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2012, 09:28:59 AM »
Bishop/DP Benke makes a good point. If there are things that - in the not-so-humble opinion of the pastor in East Overshoe, Iowa - slightly off kilter and should the young'uns bring home the wrongly kiltered ideas; there is opportunity to discuss, correct if necessary and further build the pastoral relationship.

And therein was the inherent problem:  I was being forced to correct ALL the time.  I was growing weary and tiresome of having to deprogram our 22 youth in San Antonio in 2006 and those before 2006, and at synod assemblies, pastoral education events, professional leadership events, and the list goes on and on and on...

RevSteve

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2012, 09:48:35 AM »
Anyway, the youtube connector for Nadia Bolz-Weber hooked up a bunch of the other speakers.  What I appreciated listening in was that the topics and backgrounds of the speakers addressed issues of importance to kids today from a specifically Christian, and interesting, perspective.  Lots of connecting to the youth, and food for thought and conversation among the kids and their counselors/pastors; that was always the important part - the debriefing and conversation afterward.  And the relationships formed with kids from around the country. 

Two thumbs up from me from outside the lines. 

Dave Benke


Indeed if it creates opportunities for conversation it is good. However the problem that the ELCA has set-up with their distorted understanding of the bound-conscience is that when the pastor offers up a corrective to the errors that he heard from some of the speakers at the gathering, their corrective could be seen as just another opinion. This is made even more difficult when the parents of the child also do not support the pastor's corrective teaching. The pastor can seek to correct the kids and the parents all they want but ultimately the ELCA has set up a situation where there is no expectation for the kids and/or the parents to lend any authority to the pastor's corrective teaching; they can just brush it all aside in the name of the "bound-conscience". And I realize that this has essentially already been happening for years, but with their distorted understanding of the "bound-conscience" the ELCA has effectively undercut the pastor's authority. It's not just a matter of the pastor butting heads with kids and their parents. It's ELCA policy. I already saw this starting to take shape before I left what ended up being my last ELCA call.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 09:53:32 AM by RevSteve »
Pastor Steven M. Bliss LCMC and NALC-  St Olaf Lutheran Church, Bode, Iowa

New quote, got tired of questions about Dante quote...

"Doin stuff is overrated. Like Hitler did a lot of stuff but don't we all wish he would have just sat around all day and got stoned?"-Dex from the Tao of Steve

RevSteve

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2012, 09:55:51 AM »
Bishop/DP Benke makes a good point. If there are things that - in the not-so-humble opinion of the pastor in East Overshoe, Iowa - slightly off kilter and should the young'uns bring home the wrongly kiltered ideas; there is opportunity to discuss, correct if necessary and further build the pastoral relationship.

And therein was the inherent problem:  I was being forced to correct ALL the time.  I was growing weary and tiresome of having to deprogram our 22 youth in San Antonio in 2006 and those before 2006, and at synod assemblies, pastoral education events, professional leadership events, and the list goes on and on and on...

Exactly!!! And as I pointed out. With the "bound-conscience" the authority of the pastor is effectively undercut and the parents and kids are not compelled to respect the corrective of the pastor, no matter how much that corrective is supported by scripture and the confessions.
Pastor Steven M. Bliss LCMC and NALC-  St Olaf Lutheran Church, Bode, Iowa

New quote, got tired of questions about Dante quote...

"Doin stuff is overrated. Like Hitler did a lot of stuff but don't we all wish he would have just sat around all day and got stoned?"-Dex from the Tao of Steve

Charles_Austin

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2012, 10:03:58 AM »
Still looking back over the wall, Pastor Bliss?
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Charles_Austin

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2012, 10:12:21 AM »
By "correct if necessary," I did not mean that the pastor would have to go into high dudgeon mode, sit the kid down and say "Well! That may be what you heard down there, but here we....yada yada and you better not forget it!"
   And we are not always (can you imagine?) talking about s-e-x, but often about some other aspect of the life of faith.
   It wasn't hard for me to understand that what "worked" for a couple thousand Luther Leaguers meeting at the University of Kansas might not be "just right" for Sioux City, Iowa.
   And what makes you think, Pastor Bliss, as you look back over the wall, that the "authority" of the pastor is so automatic and accepted? We have squandered some of our pastoral authority by wasting it on inconsequential things; and - like most "authoritative" segments of society today, we have to continually show why anyone should listen to us. 
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The Rev. Steven P. Tibbetts, STS

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Re: Nadia Bolz-Weber at ELCA Youth Gathering
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2012, 10:13:28 AM »
Still looking back over the wall, Pastor Bliss?

Nah, he's just giving testimony from an earlier part of his life.

Pax, Steven+
The Rev. Steven Paul Tibbetts, STS
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